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Joined: 4/27/2011
Posts: 6
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I've read through and found, now, how to use the site. On the outside it seems very nifty. I don't have stellar 'hooks' yet, but I am working on that.
But I do have a couple of questions. I have done six reviews. They may not have been the most detailed but I was still feeling my way around. And yet not one of those has reciprocated. I'm not looking for ratings or anything, just feedback. So is this place like another Authonomy where he who shouts loudest is the only one heard?
I introduced myself - nothing. I asked a question, it took a long time before I got any replies.
I don't *expect* anyone to love my stuff. It isn't that but after being on the 'yet to be discovered' page I now have nothing. No more reviews, no one following. I hate touting myself or begging folk to follow my book, but I can't seem to really connect with anyone of like mind.
So, help! What am I doing wrong? because I must be doing something very wrong indeed.
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 222
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There are several ways that you can go about getting reviews. First, you can cultivate relationships with people. Not everyone will return a review. Some people will, but it may take them days to do so. Not everyone is a fast reader, and many people are trying to get done as many reviews as possible -- or work on their own writing.
The first thing I recommend doing is requesting to connect with people who write in your same genre. Once you are connected with someone, you can recommend your book to them. This can help get them to get your book onto their shelf.
I would also try to review everyone you connect with.
The more indepth of a review that you do, the more likely that someone will reciprocate with a review of their own. That said, it is a hard sort of love. I write thorough reviews and I get them in exchange fairly often. That said, thick skin is required. A critique that is short or isn't thorough isn't as helpful. It reflects the time spent. I know I prioritize who a reciprocate by the length and thoroughness of their review. I try to return a review to everyone, but I definitely prioritize those who obviously spent the most time on my work reading and writing their review. I don't care so much about the star rating, but how much they helped me with their suggestions.
It isn't easy. I easily put 2-3 hours per review I receive. Maybe more time. But, each one is worth the effort to get. Not only do I improve my skills as a reviewer, I also get the sense of helping someone else in the community. While I want reviews back, that isn't the reason I review other people.
Sometimes connecting with random people is a shot in the dark, but you can cultivate some excellent critiquing relationships this way. I will also put preference on people I am connected with. These are the people who are of like mind, or I like their writing, or I appreciate their reviews. They are also newer users who need someone to connect with to learn how to use the site.
Unfortunately, there is only one of me... but feel free to shoot me over a connection request and I'll put your book on my shelf to get to as soon as I can. 
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Joined: 4/27/2011
Posts: 6
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Thank you, what a very helful reply. I totally understand the time. The six I read through were a heck of a lot longer than my original first chapter. I already have a thick skin, I've been in review groups before, so that doesn't bother me as long as it is the writing reviewed and not the writer.
But since I have you here. I find it much much harder to review several chapters than I would one. Even if I really like something, then I don't have time to review a whole book in one go. I guess that is the point of connecting, to say, hey, I'll do a chapter a week or some such?
I was just finding it hard to communicate with anyone.
Thanks, and if I haven't read yours already, I will.
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 222
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The beauty of Book Country is that you don't *have* to review the whole thing. What I tend to do is read as much as I can in one sitting. At the point of no return -- or that point I have to put the book down for whatever notable reason (visits to the ladies room not counting), I stop and I review. That is the critical point. If the reason is I HAVE to go to bed, I leave the story open to resume reading tomorrow.
I let the writer know what dropped me out, and give feedback on everything I read. Sometimes I will force myself through the rest of it, but I will be honest on where I stopped having interest.
The point of connecting is to foster relationships in the critique sense.. you can watch what they do, they can watch what you do. Your reviews (and the comments after them) are where the real relationship building is. If someone likes your critique style, they'll critique back and hope to build a relationship with you. So, the more you put into that critique, the more likely you'll get to build those relationships. Connections are just the beginning.
Communicate by giving reviews like you want to receive them. If they ask questions, like your review, talk with them about their book. The more you connect with someone, the more likely they will be to look your stuff over.
If you can't review an entire book in a sitting, don't... continue the review in comments after you give the initial one, or do a new one if they post a new draft version.
Hope this helps a bit
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Joined: 3/7/2011
Posts: 55
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Laurel-- I've got you on my to-do list.
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Joined: 5/2/2011
Posts: 13
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Hey, Laurel.
I joined BC about a week ago and have been reading up chapters a lot more than putting up my own. Tried to rectify that in the last few days, but now I'm facing the newer frustration of going about advertising my work. I would say, it sucks, but actually I think I just need patience. See, RJBlain above is already something of a veteran, and since (as Sydney says) BC's still in its baby stage, in a month or two, we'll probably be the same. She's been around since BC's inception a month and a half ago. I think (at a glance) she must have spent major hours connecting with other writers here. Even if you can't be that diligent, I still think in a few month's time you'll have more than just a couple of reviews.
Anyway, best of luck. I'm reading your 'The broken sword' right now- it takes me time to review because I try to read slowly and thoroughly- and recommended it to my connections. It's not a favour, I'm really liking the story.
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 222
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With me, I try to review at least one book from each of my connections -- but, it takes time to do. I try to do at least one review a day, so if I have 40 books on my shelf... it could take up to a month to get to one review. (Some days I can do as many as 4 or 5 reviews in a day, but these aren't as common.)
Patience is key, as Paroma pointed out, I've been on the site a lot longer, so I've had the time to try to build those connections. Be patient, and just review as thoroughly as you can. Self-promotion does help, but as long as your polite and give thorough reviews, the reviews will (eventually) get back to you.
Especially if you get a reputation of being a good reviewer, people will start to review your works in hopes of getting a return review from you.
The motivation here is that you (and others) want to improve the quality of writing. That is the end goal. This type of workshop won't work for everyone, but if you have the mentality and drive to improve, you'll be able to take advantage of it.
Just my two cents of course!
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 222
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I truly believe it is all about how you view it. I don't review books with the end goal of getting reviews on my own. Reading other writing and finding ways to offer suggestions to improve -their- work helps me find problems with my own, thus my reviewing others is entirely in my self-interests.
Writing has always been a solo sport. No matter how many reviews you receive, at the very end of the day, how much you improve is how much you dedicate yourself and make efforts to improve yourself. Perhaps change how you think about reviews and view them as a way to find ways to improve yourself by helping others.
You may also want to consider if your hook and tag line for your book are hampering people from wanting to dedicate the time to review your story. If you aren't getting a lot of reviews, perhaps the tag line or basic plot isn't interesting to them. It is just like in a book store. If the title and synopsis don't appeal, there is a much higher chance the book won't get picked up.
That said, once I put a book on my shelf, I review it even if it takes me a month or more to get to it because of the long list of books I still need to get reviews done on.
I don't relate my reviewing with getting reviews on my story... it is a nice benefit, but it isn't the reason I do it.
I would strongly recommend not using the mindset of 'reviewing someone = I get reviews' -- it helps, but it shouldn't be the reason you're reviewing someone's writing, in my honest and rather blunt opinion.
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Joined: 2/27/2011
Posts: 353
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Ted -
Have you tried getting to know some of the other folks in the community by starting some discussions in our Forums?
Also, RJ's advice about reworking your short description is a good one: your short description is basically your hook; one of the threads in our Discussions forum is focused on helping you rework your hook.
One of the purposes of creating Book Country was to try to help writers not only figure out how to be better writers, but also how to learn more about what makes you a more professional writer. One thing that all writers need to learn is patience. =)
The community is small right now because the site literally JUST went into public beta last week. Up until then, we had only 550 private beta users testing the site.
If you'd really like to see more activity on this site, why don't you help us recruit more members by telling your friends about Book Country? The more the merrier!
Cheers!
Colleen Lindsay
Book Country Community Manager
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Joined: 5/2/2011
Posts: 13
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@ Colleen
I know BC rewards reviewers with badges if they review a highly rated book and writers with points if their books get on the Buzz or Favourites shelves, but don't you think there would be more incentive to review the books on the 'yet to be discovered' shelf if some kind of reward was given to those who are first to review them? That way all writers would get at least their first reviews quickly and the star rating might help them get more.
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 102
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This book selection process may be unique to me, but this is how I choose books to review:
For the most part, I choose them the same way I choose published books to read. I look through the entire list and pick books whose description appeals to me, regardless of genre.
I then review them in the order of least amount of activity. It takes me up to 2 days to review one book because I read it at least twice and try to be as thorough as I can with my comments. For this reason, I look for a story that isn't changing as I'm reviewing it.
Also, with so many books on my bookshelf, it can take me up to a month to get to all of them. For this reason, I generally choose my list of new books to read at the beginning of each month.
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Joined: 2/27/2011
Posts: 353
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Paroma -
That's a great idea! Can you add it to our Suggestions thread please, so we don't lose it over here?
Thanks!
Colleen
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Joined: 3/12/2011
Posts: 376
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@Laurel - I've not done any 'shouting' as of yet, at least nothing that felt like standing on a street corner hawking things, yet I've gotten a fair amount of reviews on each of my books.
On the first book, it took a bit before I got a review, but since then I've gotten both more,more frequent and more rapid reviews.
How long has it been since you first posted?
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Joined: 2/27/2011
Posts: 353
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Ted -
Philip's review of your book will ultimately hold zero weight when your ratings are averaged as his review is being consistently thumbed-down. It is clear that he posted the review simply to get it out of the way, without any thought. Other people are already seeing that.
The more people who thumbs-down Philip's review, the more his "karma" on the Book Country reputation system goes down. Eventually, if he keeps reviewing books in this way, his reviews won't carry any weight at all.
This is how we keep people like Philip from gaming the system. We deliberately designed it to be different than other writing communities out there, including Authonomy.
Additionally, if a member continues to behave in this manner, that member is a candidates for suspension and possibly being banned entirely.
Best,
Colleen Lindsay
Book Country Community Manager
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 214
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Ted,
I know it's of no consolation, but I got a "get it out of the way" one-star review on one of my books too recently. I don't take these too seriously ... and I don't think that many Book Country reviewers will take this route. Well, I hope not.
I have a lot of books that I'm currently reading, but these are FULL BOOKS -- it's hard for me to know where to stop reading and start reviewing. The one reason why I kept my chapters at minimum is to not overwhelm folks here.
BTW, I recognize you from Rachelle's blog!
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Joined: 4/28/2011
Posts: 34
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Sorry if I come off as whiny or snitty, but I've been sort of disappointed with with the critique-etiquitte I'm seeing here.
I kind of expected a back and forth -- like: I'll do yours if you'll do mine, and for that reason I went full steam ahead and critiqued around 20. Not a single person has reciprocated -- the two folks who reviewed me (very well, thank you so much!) did so out of the blue (and I returned the favor).
Now, I know that not everyone who I crit can find something useful to say about mine, and I know not everyone has time (in the beginning I made the mistake of editing folks who had something like 24 already.) But as of yesterday I noticed I only had 6 READS on mine, which means that of the 20 people I critted, only a few have even bothered to LOOK.
I try my best to do long and thoughtful critiques -- if you read some you'll see that, whether you agree or not, I do take my time and try to dissect the writing. And when they comment, I comment back.
Do I really have to Connect and Recommend, and shove it in people's faces to give them the hint that YES, I'm actually here for the same reason they are?
I'd take it as more of a personal ability slap if I saw a ton of reads and no crits (or else I'd figure that my writing was so wonderful that nobody could improve it) But as it stands I'm taking it as a kind of writerly rudeness.
Can somebody help me feel better about this? Or slap me upside the head and tell me why I've fallen prey to wrong thinking?
Sorry for the whining.
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Joined: 2/27/2011
Posts: 353
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Hi Mom!
To be honest, that is exactly the kind of thing we are hoping people won't do. It is what makes many of the other online writing communities useless to so many writers. It leads to fast and sloppy critiques where everyone gets four and five stars but nobody gets any helpful advice on how to actually improve the work.
Critiquing isn't a game and shouldn't be done out of a sense of obligation. We want people to critique what they want to critique, when they want to critique it.
Additionally, if you aren't getting a lot of reads, you should reevaluate your short description. Your short description is basically your hook. If your hook isn't compelling people to read your chapters, this should tell you something.
I would take the time to explore our Discussions boards. There is a place in there for you to workshop your hook and hopefully make it more compelling to potential readers.
All the best,
Colleen Lindsay
Book Country Community Manager
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Joined: 4/28/2011
Posts: 34
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Right -- I am making an effort NOT to give fast and sloppy critiques, and making an effort not to slap stars on things just to give other writers a sense of obligation (though I have to admit the thought occurred to me!) I don't think setting up any sort of give-take requirement would work, because that's exactly what it would lead to.
I assume (in some globally karmic way) I will get what I give, and I don't want stars, and I don't want a three-line "this was great!" (or awful!) review... I want help to make my work better.
Yeah, it probably is my hook/description. I read the discussion on it, and have changed it up a few times to see whether that would make a difference. (No.) I am obviously woefully inadequate at it. But I have to say, I usually look past the hook -- at least for a paragraph or two -- when I am deciding what to review. And especially, after someone has gone through the effort to critique mine, I would give them the courtesy of at least a quick look-over to see whether I could return the favor, miserable hook or not.
Oh well. As I said, forgive the online whining. Might just need to take a break and come back in a while -- think I need a dose of patience!
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Joined: 4/29/2011
Posts: 3
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I joined this site a couple weeks ago. I am still writing my WIP and don't plan on posting it until I've completed a couple of revisions. So I'm more than willing to critique anyone who needs one. If you send a request to connect with me I'll put you on my list.
@Laurel, Sydney, Ted, and Mom: I'll take a look at yours.
I mostly read Fantasy and Urban Fantasy, but if a voice and story hooks me enough I'll read almost anything.
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Joined: 4/28/2011
Posts: 34
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Thank you Velvet!
I'll go bumble around the connecting place and see if I can make it happen. And I really mean what I say: don't feel obliged, because if you can't find anything constructive to say (good or bad) then you shouldn't. But if you'd take a look that's all I ask!
Love mom
PS And then you need to recommend yours to me when you DO post it, and I will check it out.
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Joined: 4/28/2011
Posts: 34
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Oh -- and Laurel, I'll check yours out, when I get back tonight. Obviously, I'm all about reciprocal reviewing, too!
mom
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Joined: 2/27/2011
Posts: 353
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Hi Shelundra -
I know that it feels back to give a negative review but the writers here on Book Country are looking for constructive feedback to help them revise their books and make them better. So even if you give a negative review, as long as it contains thoughtful advice on what you think the writer could do to improve the book.
Cheers!
Colleen
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