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Joined: 4/27/2011
Posts: 26
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I write fight scenes like a 5 year old. Any good tutorial, tips, websites on how to write really good fight scenes.
Please avoid recommending books, unless it's that good. I probably will have a hard time tracking it down.
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Joined: 11/17/2011
Posts: 26
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Great post Kenley, I've got the same problem. My characters blunder around the battle field and weakly flail swords and shoot arrows at one another.
Wish more writers would share their tips, c'mon guys! I've read some fabulous fighting scene here, tell us how you do it!
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Joined: 12/1/2011
Posts: 35
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When I write any kind of fight or combat scenes, I try to take it slowly. First, consider all the factors and variables. This can include but is not limited to:
Who is fighting? (characteristics, temperment, etc)
What are they fighting with?
Why are they fighting?
Where are they fighting?
External influences (weather, etc)
For me, the bulk of this is the who, followed by the why. First, who are these people? Are they trained? If they are, how much training do they have, are they any good at fighting, and what style of fighting do they use? Are they blood enemies or just angry at one another? Is this 1-on-1 or is this a group fight (which is much more complicated)?
So there are a lot of things to consider there. The better you know your characters, the easier that process becomes.
You must also consider the why. Fighting is not always just about survival (though that is the main goal - to not lose). Is there a cause or a mission involved, or is this just two (or more) people brawling? People will fight differently, maybe better or worse, depending on their mental state as it pertains to the fight. Try to look at it from every character's perspective.
Once I have all that stuff clear in my head, I turn to setting and environmental conditions. I try to develop a map in my head (and sometimes on paper) of the "arena" where the fight is taking place.
Now I have to choreograph the fight. Sometimes this is a fast process, but as the combat becomes more involved and more people become entwined in the fight, it can become complex. I try to take it one step at a time, be patient, and really step through each move, keeping in mind all the things I determined in my planning.
As I write the scene out, I tend to start with simple outlined moves or a basic description, then add in the details as I move through the scene. Sometimes it will be blow-by-blow, depending on who is involved and how crucial the fight is to the plot. Note that I said how important the fight is, not the outcome. A fight can propel the story, but it can also reveal elements of the characters involved as well, things which might not come out in casual conversation or exposition. Keep that in mind when deciding how much detail to include.
I will on occasion actually stand up and mimic some of the moves I have characters making, trying as best as I can to feel the impact each decision and swing might make so I can determine if what I am writing is feasible.
I am not an expert in any kind of combat, so research also comes in handy. This will vary greatly depending on your story, but use every resource you have at your disposal. Take the time to determine how your characters fight.
To use my own writing as an example, I based some techniques on basic sword play, some on samurai techniques and Japanese style, and some I made up based upon the abilities of the characters and their unusual weapons.
One thing I do not do is throw in fighting scenes for the sake of having them. If fighting becomes gratuitious, it becomes boring.
So that is my long-winded and hopefully somewhat useful description of how I do fight scenes. I probably forgot stuff because I do the bulk of it out of rote because I have done so many, but I think what I have here is a good launching point. Good luck!
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Joined: 2/25/2012
Posts: 20
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I think the biggest mistake made in fight scenes is just flat overdoing it. As a reader, nothing wears me out faster than seeing "fluidly, faster than his opponent could see, suddenly, like a (insert super-fast creature analogy here), gracefully, like a (insert dancing analogy here)..." It drives me so crazy I will put the book down if there's too much of it: it takes away from the story and makes me feel like I'm just listening to a high school girl talk about how great her boyfriend is. If I'm writing, I do my best to stay away from the temptations above, despite wanting everyone to get a grip on just how awesome that character might be.
When I'm writing fights, I usually do some practical prep first. Know the character, like Pure said, and figure out the variables involved in the fight. As for knowing fighting styles, I try to assign styles to any given character: are they a brawler, berserker, level-headed pro, hot-headed beginner, provoked quiet kid, etc?
Familiarize yourself with different patterns in a variety of martial arts : krav maga, capoeira, karate, tae kwondo, and jiu jitsu videos abound, and if you like one in particular, just watch a bunch of it until you feel you can isolate and describe a handful of the movements.
Basically, I don't think many people expect every writer whose character throws a punch to be a blackbelt-- actually I think getting too entrenched in techniques and the exact movements can detract from the scene overall, especially if it is a long battle or spar.
When in doubt on technique, analysis is good too. Get into the character's head. Between punches, tell the reader why are they are really fighting: are they just plain angry, getting a read on the opponent's skill, offering a distraction for another party, was their honor insulted, or are they just in need of a good fight?
A final word, be sure there is appropriate preamble. It's always frustrating to see how quickly some characters get into fights--in the real world, most folks will take (assuming they're not drunk or attacked or just violent idiots) a serious ration of shit before actually swinging at someone. Give them an ironclad lead-up and the fight will be more satisfying to the reader, as well.
/thumbs up!
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Joined: 1/7/2012
Posts: 6
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Fighting is an elemental undertaking. The depiction of it should follow that reality...e.g. a good depiction of horrific violence is stark and simple, something like this..."Smith followed the blood into the bathroom. The bleeding man struggled to breath behind the shower curtain, his lungs gurgling, filling. The man coughed. Smith pulled the curtain, holding it to protect himself from the spray. "Don't do it," the man said. Smith shot him in the throat.
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Joined: 2/25/2012
Posts: 20
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That ^ brings up another good point: the genre you're writing for can drastically change the tone of any fight scene. I'm thinking from a fantasy-position, where sometimes the point of the fight is to have it all played out, whereas if you're going for a noir or pulp feel, George's idea would probably be more suitable.
Either way, try to convey the visceral urgency or necessity of the moment, assuming it's a matter of survival--for that kind of thing, I'd definitely say the stark, stripped-down tone gets my vote.
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Joined: 11/17/2011
Posts: 26
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I find my problem isnt overdoing it, its underdoing it (is that even a word? I havent had my tea yet  ). I can see the fighting in my head but when I try to put it down on paper it ends up reading like a kindergarden play. I haven't given a serious go at acting out my fighting scenes, honsetly I'm afraid my cat is going to judge me. But maybe I should. Harper and George, do yall act out your fighting scenes?
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Joined: 3/12/2011
Posts: 376
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I've done a variety of different things, but there are a few I recommend.
- As others have mentioned, know the styles of each of your fighters. I'm not really talking about 'Tae Kwon Do' or 'Aikido', I'm talking more about 'Fast', 'Strong', 'Clumsy', 'Elegant', what have you. Throw in a *few* descriptive words about how each one fights. This is a great opportunity for characterization, as people will choose fighting styles that reflect their personality, and if a fighting style is chosen for them it will often affect their personality.
- Act it out. I do that myself to some degree. If you're not athletic, but still want to see if something is *possible*, get one of those little artist's dolls they use for posing. I've done something similar with the Poser app and with well articulated dolls. If you have to break the doll to put it into a position, you have to break the PERSON to put them in that position.
- Another one others have talked about - Know who is fighting. If one character is a master combatant and the other is a neophyte, the fight is going to be over fast. If both characters are equally skilled, but specialized in modern ranged combat, the fight will be long periods of tension (playing hide and seek creeping from cover to cover) punctuated by short periods of terror (shooting at one another). If one of the characters is a ranged combatant, he will go for position while his opponent tries to close. If both characters are melee combatants, they'll close with one another quickly. Take away lesson: think about who your fighters are and what that means to the fight. A great SILLY tutorial for doing this is Death Battle, a Youtube video series where they do just this with fictional characters (My favorite is Starscream from Transformers vs. Rainbow Dash from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic)
- Know why you as an author are including the fight. I actually did *no* blow by blow for one fight near the end of 'Crowbar Girl', because the end was fight heavy already, and that particular fight, even though it was between the titular character and the nemesis' right hand man, was one sided and added nothing to the narrative. The following fight, between the titular character, her friends, and the nemesis himself, I did a lot of blow-by-blow not for the moves themselves, but because the moves combined with the dialogue let me illustrate the nemesis very quickly and clearly.
- Keep it realistic. By this I mean remember that fighting is hard work. Most people are battle effective for about as long as they can run (not jog), and they can fight in immediate melee combat about as long as they can sprint. Unless your characters are superhuman, they're not doing in-the-heat combat for more than about five to ten minutes. If you're doing mass field combat, characters won't be useful on a battlefield for more than about an hour or two. In other words, keep it short.
Remember also that blow-by-blow often reads like bullet time: time slows to a crawl. That's not always a bad thing - see any number of blockbuster action flicks, including just about anything by John Woo, and you'll see what I mean.
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Joined: 4/27/2011
Posts: 608
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Get into a fight. Write about it. (See Hemingway, Mailer, et. al.)
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Great advice, Carl. One may discover distortion of perceived time; tunnel vision; auditory exclusion, where the brain screens things out; psychological splitting, where you're watching yourself do something and we won't even mention plain old confusion. Cops in firefights report all of these symptoms and more.
I suspect that a cursory understanding of very real and unavoidable physiological effects might help me to write believable fight scenes that fit my characters. I'm going to the neighborhood bar right now. Stay tuned....
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Joined: 2/25/2012
Posts: 20
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Lols to AJ. =P
I've only acted out a scene once, and it was really just to make sure I described one movement correctly: when you reviewed Unfit you may have seen it (the moment when Locke knocks Ben over in Chapter 3). It was just a whole lot of pacing around mumbling, "Okay...if he's here, and she...no, okay, that would be the right hand, then..." Other than that, the only fight scene I have so far is in Chapter 14, and it's more like what George described--a little less about the action and more about the brutality of the moment.
And Carl makes a good point, too--I could talk for hours on the merits of getting into a good fight, but sadly it's one of those things that can't really be done outside a licensed facility these days. I took some fencing in college, and one thing that always stuck with me afterward was that feeling when your reflexes and your anger at getting your ass kicked start working together. It's a little like your brain shuts off and your body just starts reacting: you can't really register what the other person does, you just react to it with blockblockblockpoke! Then there's that moment when "the worm turns," so to speak, and even a person with lesser skill starts flailing around enough to make the better opponent take a few steps back. Speaking from both sides, I can say it's pretty...interesting when that happens. Always makes a good scene, too. ^-^
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Joined: 11/17/2011
Posts: 26
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Thanks for the responce Harper. I'll have to lure myself away from my laptop with promises of greek yogurt only to trip a wire that sends a Dracula-esque mannequin fyling down at me and two soliders armed with pots and spatulas with colanders on their heads, and see how I fight them off. Or I could join GD at the bar.
I've realized I'm slacking on the fights in Kurig, kinda scribbling something out on a coffee and ketchup stained napkin and pinning it in with the rest of the chapters, and thats not going to cut it anymore.
So if we can all send a petition to the Time Gods requesting 5 hours a day for battle practice, I'd appreciate it.
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 412
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Find some people that are sparring in your area, a gym that specializes in boxing, or a martial arts tourney, or your local friendly SCA StickJocks. watch them. Ask questions.
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There are some novels that contain some excellent fight scenes that I would recommend. (I know you said to avoid recommending books, but they really are that good. Plus, learning how to write fight scenes by reading them is how I learned what to do and not do when writing fight scenes).
For an all-out unarmed slugfest between two characters, the Richard Sharpe vs. Patrick Harper fight from Bernard Cornwell's Sharpe's Rifles is a stand-out.
As for swordfights, I'd recommend reading the following:
Scaramouche and Fortune's Fool, by Rafael Sabatini
The Princess Bride, by William Goldman
The Knight of Maison-Rouge, by Alexandre Dumas
Most of the books in the "Captain Alatriste" series by Arturo Perez-Reverte (particularly The King's Gold and The Cavalier in the Yellow Doublet)
Sharpe's Honour, by Bernard Cornwell (unlike most of these other works, the protagonist is not a trained fencer, and is mostly a brawling hack-and-slasher who can find himself outmatched by trained swordsmen.)
--edited by Ian Nathaniel Cohen on 6/24/2013, 4:36 PM--
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 412
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I've recommended it for a few things, but Worm, an online serial novel found at parahumans.wordpress.com . has EXCELLENT fight scenes.
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Joined: 1/23/2012
Posts: 36
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I love writing fight scenes!
I second Alexander's recommendation and will add that the voice in "The Knife Of Never Letting Go" and it's sequels lend to awesome fight scenes as well.
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Joined: 11/15/2013
Posts: 9
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I noticed this thread is a few months old but I'm new to the community and this thread is definitely something that caught my eye. Fight scenes have always been hard for me to write. I go back and forth between too much and too little when writing them and haven't had much luck writing anything well balanced. It seems everyone has offered a lot of tips and advice on how to plan and execute these scenes using a basic formula that any genre can use. I write fantasy so it's a bit different with magic and all that but the principles at the basic structure are the same.
I also noticed that there were some books listed for helpful fight scenes as resources for research and writing but they are not easy to get here in Japan. Does anyone know of any online resources that can be used to find either full books or excerpts to read? Sometimes I just need to read the scene and dissect the writing in order to understand it so I don't really need entire novels at my disposal.
I'm definitely going to play around with the advice you all gave on this topic and see what happens with my scenes 
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