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Joined: 6/3/2011
Posts: 9
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Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the romance genre. We all know that is tends to cross the lines of fantasy on a regular biases, but where are the shinning white knights in the real world? Not every person is able to jump into a relationship with a man or woman that pops up out of the blue. People in general have issues (usually lots of them too), and you never read about the problems that characters have with each other or in their separate lives that often. Where is the alcoholic hero? (no man I ever met came without baggage) How about the Heroin in dept up to her eyeballs? Do dead beat abusive step fathers exist? Is there really no characters with bills? How does he deal with the hate of her loud chewing? What about a hero who is already in a relationship? (The good ones are always taken, huh?) Our everyday lives are what we try to escape from when we read romance novels and dream of hot sexy men in newly broken in beds. So what I'm asking is: would we as people better associate with characters who experience the stuff we go through or is realism hindering the illusion of the escape? How far is too far with realism or should it not even be a factor? What are your thoughts, and how realistic do you believe a romance novel should be.
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 214
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It’s funny that you ask this, because I want a good balance of realism and romance. A lot of my relationships were not really romantic. Yes, they started out that way. I had a lovely, long-term romantic relationship that ended dreadfully after I discovered he’d been cheating his way through the entire thing. But he really LOVED me, which was the totally screwy part. He still is the most romantic person I’ve ever met, and parts of my MMC in SSR are based on him. I got this email tonight: “When I’m alone and at peace, I find that my thoughts turn to you. Always.” Seriously --? I still find myself wanting to scrub the inside of my brain with a $%&#in’ toothbrush. So some things are still off limits, to my mind.
This is not to say that I wouldn’t mind a romance novel where the heroine and hero have different types of challenges. I’ve actually given a lot of thought to one of your proposed heroes --- I’ve considered writing a romance novel about a small town preacher’s son in a LT relationship with a local girl, and because he’s the nice guy, he really can’t dump her, even though he doesn’t really love her “like that” (and vice versa). Then he meets the heroine, who’s new to town and fireworks ensue. I’m not sure if that would fly, but oh boy, do I really want to write it. Mainly because I knew a guy in a sticky sitch just like that.
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Joined: 6/3/2011
Posts: 9
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Yeah, I've known a guy almost in the same situation too, but that's what I mien. Life isn't easy as books make it out to be, and I just think it would be easier to say: "I just went through that crap with my ex" or "I did something different when that happened to me" if the characters lives were more realistic. I write PR and try to portray an actual (bills & bad boyfriends) world with paranormal aspects. There maybe vampires and werewolves, but they have to pay taxes too. =p
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 214
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I think that for anything that's a tad bit realistic and perhaps even a little messy, you'd have to conduct a survey to gauge the tolerance of the average reader. Everyone's going to have a particular hot button issue that they want to avoid.
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 279
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If you are going to go for realistic faults, I'd go with ones most people could relate to. They've seen them before so the shock value wouldn't be there. How about the guy who believes if his pants aren't stained they can be worn another day...or two.
Someone who hates doing laundry to the point that they'd rather go commando than wash underwear?
I like writing people who have some emotional baggage from previous relationships. Little hang-ups left over from a bad breakup, nothing that's a show stopper, but it will slow the new relationship down. One I've used in a book is...
MFC has an ex who was controlling. If they went to the movies the guy picked the movie. If she wanted to see something different and talked him into it he would quietly make it a miserable experience. Complaining about the movie, actors, seats etc.
When she gets into a new relationship she subtly resists anything that feels like the MMC calling all the shots.
When I first met my husband, he still had a lot of hangups from his ex. He's a programmer, he's happy in a ratty band t-shirt, jeans and sitting in a dark room. She tried her best to get him to dress like she thought he should. Dockers, chinos, nice shirts and designer brands. The whole campaign went over like a fart in church. When I first met him he would have to wear business casual to work sometimes and he would wear street clothes to work, change at the McD's across the street and change back as soon as he got out.
I don't think I saw him in anything but jeans until we went to a funeral a year later. Even then, he pulled the above stunt to limit his time in dress clothing.
After fifteen years he's relaxed and that hangup faded, but while it lasted it was adorable.
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 214
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I’m with IVW. I’m not into characters who are too unworn. I still see a lot of “sheltered” heroes and heroines. There’s the mid- to late-30s bachelor who … well, sure, he’s had flings, but he’s never really been in love before. (Seriously? How do you manage to not love another soul until your late 30s?) And the heroine who, despite a really bad break-up or divorce, still seems to have a certain emotional/psychological innocence about her. But it’s not just breakups and divorces that’ll knock you on your butt – it can be the death of a parent, loss of a career/home, living through a major illness, etc. By the time most people reach a certain age, they’ll have at least one major ding.
I dunno, maybe this is the reason that adult women are flocking to YA romance, because they want to relive that time in their lives when they were unsullied and didn’t have any baggage. I think I’m a more interesting person for the experiences I’ve had, personally. Hence, I like romance novels featuring MMCs and MFCs who have a little dirt under their nails.
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Joined: 6/3/2011
Posts: 9
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Well, you got to think of it this way too: Some women like to try and save men from themselves. Those type of women see their bad flaws and want to help change them into a good guy. The whole turn a frog to a prince scenario is common now a days due to the lack of decent men without baggage. One of the bleeding hearts of the world adopting a "fixer-up" boyfriend or girlfriend is a gamble I have faced before (so failed at, but tried). There is a lot of problems with the person, but working through it seems to make the relationships stronger for some.
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 214
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@PV,
Yes, you are correct. The number of men out there without baggage is scarce. However, I've found and dated a couple of these. They are a rare breed -- so rare as to almost be extinct.
I'm against the "fixer upper" hero/heroine because 1) I know that this is not possible; one person cannot change another; and 2) even though these are "just romance novels," I don't want to set a permissive tone for women and tell them that it's okay to try and "rescue" the alcoholic, drug addict, compulsive gambler, terminally unemployed, etc. I also feel the same way about "Oops, MMC! I'm pregnant!" romance novels.
OTOH, I have no problem with heroes and heroines that have "flaws" beyond their control. I'd like to see more cancer survivors and people with physical disabilities, like M.S. and other autoimmune disorders. Paralysis, loss of limb? Fine by me! My MMC in 'See Sabrina Run" sold everything he owned and pared down his lifestyle to keep his sister on life support. If a flaw brings out that fighting human spirit, that's the flaw I want to read about! 
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Joined: 3/12/2011
Posts: 376
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@Lisa - what about demonstrating the *possible* fixer-upper relationship?
In this case I'm not talking about the addicts you've mentioned above, or at least not specifically. I'm talking about the hero or heroine who is emotionally scarred due to earlier mistreatment. In that case, the care of someone who *isn't* abusive can do remarkable things.
Of course, it might not always work as an HEA, but it can certainly work as an HFN, no? Especially if both characters have their own issues, and are working them out as they go?
I suppose the big difference is whether the problem is the aftermath of a failed crisis of faith or a more deeply rooted character flaw.
Thoughts?
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 214
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@Robert
I think that romance writers should be careful to delineate between a character flaw or an addiction that’s extremely damaging to others around them (e.g., alcoholism, sex addiction) and a circumstance that the H/H cannot control that leaves them vulnerable. People with serious issues need professional treatment and care. All of the love in the world won’t save them, and I believe that as writers, it’s our moral imperative – yes, I did use the word “moral;” sorry if this makes me sound above-it-all, but I do believe in morals -- to accurately reflect what really happens in such “rescue” relationships. Now, if you're writing fiction with a literary slant or commercial fiction in general, that's another ball game entirely.
My next book is about a woman who’s a “silver digger,” for example; she was raised by two elderly great aunts who never taught her how to take care of herself, so she’s forever the “princess who needs to be rescued.” She cannot self-sustain, so she’s practically forced to look at men on the basis of their bottom lines (“Will he put me on his insurance policy?”), not for who they are as people. That’s definitely a character flaw. But it’s also one that can also be changed with the right life lessons. (My hero is going to teach her how to work.)
Realistically, a lot of women continue to pursue seriously flawed men (as in, there’s no hope), and vice versa. One of my divorced friends got involved with a crack addict. It sent shivers down my spine, the way she made him sound so noble and heroic “trying to conquer his addition” (from which only one percent ever recover). He cost her her job. Now he’s back in prison again – this time, forever. That’s realism. I don’t want to read about that. I don’t even want to hear about it.
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 279
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What drives me crazy in real life are the women/men who think a serial cheater is going to stay in a committed relationship with them.
Chances are, if he/she has cheated on the last five people, you're going to be next in line. These people are usually shocked too!
There is someone I know who has cheated on every. single. person they have been with. Every one, no exceptions. Spouse one got left for Spouse 2. Spouse 2 was shocked when the cycle repeated itself and they got left for Spouse 3. After Spouse 3, Serial Cheater...aka SC...decided losing 50% wasn't worth it anymore and stopped marrying. I've been watching this for two decades and each person thinks they will be the one to change SC's ways.
Nope. Not gonna happen. SC didn't come with the monogamy gene.
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 214
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IVW,
Absolutely! While I'd hesitate to state that every single serial cheater on the planet could not be reformed (hey, one percent of crack addicts recover, too), chances are negligible this will happen.
The serial cheater and the women (men?) who marry them may make great fodder for realistic women's fiction that's more mainstream, but integrating this into genre romance? I just cannot see it happening, ever.
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 279
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I just read one romance that attempted that very storyline. It fell flat and at the end when he married the girl I had a hard time believing they would have a HEA. Maybe I'm jaded from a lifetime of watching SC making the rounds, but that's a very small 1%
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Joined: 5/10/2011
Posts: 69
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So, I am jumping in a tad late here, but I couldn’t resist such a great topic.
I absolutely love a deeply flawed character. I write them on purpose. In fact I try to make them as emotionally raw and vulnerable as I can while still staying true to POV, plot, etc. because that is what grabs me. I am relatively convinced that revealing in a character a flaw that is realistic and present in many real life situations/people, but perhaps not actually allowed, socially or otherwise, to be acknowledged out loud is part of what draws readers/people in to a story.
I think the best flaws, and most believable are the ones that run deep. 'Cause let’s face it, we all have our stuff. Everyone has baggage. Whether it manifests as a serial cheater, or a serial killer, it is quite possible that the same *insert appropriate emotional issue here* is at the root of it.
@Lisa, I agree with you completely on the moral imperative you mentioned As artists, we have the potential to empower in a unique way. What we create has the power to impact people for better or for worse. Specific to women,(though not limited to them) I certainly don't ever want to put a voice out there that gives permission to be anything but make an impact for the better. But the journey from valley to mountain top is long and arduous. One of the beauties of writing fiction is the chance to write the success story.
In Hindsight, my MFC & her husband have struggled unsuccessfully with fertility treatments for years. She has just lost her mother to Alzheimer’s. Two very emotionally draining experience that leave her marriage nearly destroyed and draw to the surface all kinds of crisis of faith *AND* character. Life does that sometimes. Her relationship with my MMC is one of the crises. (Of both faith and character) I believe that is why it would be interesting to [especially women] readers, because put in her situation, there are many of us who could find ourselves facing the same crisis.
In *real life*, I was a victim of abuse, both sexual and emotional. I was one of the emotionally scarred @Robert referred to in his response. After chasing too many emotionally unavailable and abusive men I wound up married to one of the few men @Lisa mentioned to who didn’t (and doesn’t) have much baggage. I agree wholeheartedly with @Robert, the love and care of someone without issues can do much healing.
I guess I believe in the happy ending for the flawed character because I am living mine. I am convinced that readers, heck *ALL* of us, want to believe they are possiblelFor me, faults written into my characters at a very core level, are a must. How they manifest varies from slob to momma's boy to sleazebag serial cheater.
The *escape* from the pain of reality comes in the happy ending.
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Joined: 3/10/2011
Posts: 6
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Honestly, I think it's a matter of personal preference.
There are those that would enjoy a story with characters mired in baggage so deep they've got to wear snowshoes to climb over it, and then others want romance so innocent and fluffy that gummy bears could choke on it.
The beauty of this genre is its flexibility. No baggage is too big to overcome. No heroine is too flawed, no hero too broken.
And I think Lisa Marie makes an excellent point. When you cross the line into things that severely damage a person, (drug addiction, chronic cheating, etc.) then you're leaving the romance genre and going into another realm. I think it's called "With Romantic Elements."
Personally, I like my realistic character flaws to be of the normal-ish variety. Cause let's face it, I want you to cheer for them.
Nice topic!
Gina
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 214
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@Gina,
It took me a while to figure out what I was trying to say about this topic, but your post helped me sort of hone it down. Realism is wonderful; it helps readers connect with the characters and the plot. But the characters' external and inner conflict should not be so overwhelming that they themselves *are* the focus of the plot. Is the book about two people with problems falling in love, or is it about two people in love trying to overcome an insurmountable obstacle?
I think "romantic elements" sums it up nicely.
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Joined: 6/3/2011
Posts: 9
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@Gina
Thanks. ^_^ Also yeah it is a matter of preference but people can be too sensitive about some subjects so I'm try to assess the parameters of what think. Yeah I enjoy PR, but the characters need to feel like they can exist in everyday life.
@Lisa
"Romantic Elements" kind of makes me feel that you have to put a certain amount of sex and love-play in a book or it isn't a romance. *powts* I need more randy characters...
In all I know one bit of realism will never be in a romance novel lol small itty-bitty "egos" ^_- never read one book where the guy isn't packin' at least a cucumber sized happy stick lol
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Joined: 3/10/2011
Posts: 6
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@ Valkyrie
Agreed, people can be ultra-sensitive. But I don't think we as authors should cater to that. It's our responsibility to write the stories that only we can tell. If they involve things that offend some, so be it. Once the stories are written, then we can figure out what to label them. And I agree, the best paranormal romances have characters with extremely human characteristics. We as readers have to be able to relate to them, especially to cheer on their romantic relationships.
Also, the "with romantic elements" tagline excuses you from the major components of Romance, IMO. That being, the relationship being the core of the story, and the HEA. If the romantic relationship in your novel takes the backseat to the central plot, no matter how steamy the sex, then it's a Genre with Romantic Elements, not a Romance, IMO.
@Lisa
You hit the nail on the head. The romantic relationship, not the individual characters, is the core of a Romance. Well put!
Gina
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Joined: 7/10/2011
Posts: 7
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Realism is good when it is integral to the plot, shaping characters, and not so much put in with intension. Reaching into the ugly parts of life, the less ordinary is more engaging to this right, but again, as long as it is tied to the plot and not random. Good question. HL
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Joined: 3/7/2011
Posts: 15
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One of the first scenes I wrote for my newest WiP had to do with the MFC revealing a deep dark secret about things that had happened to her when she was practically a toddler(to clarify, there was no sexual abuse, although that seems to be a hot topic in some stories).
The stuff that happened to her when she was little, set the stage for how she would be as she grew up. It's pretty integral for this story, but I noticed that it was PRETTY DARK, real, and I had started out with the intention of writing something light, but sometimes a story requires a situation with a lot of gravity. Not a total downer, b/c really, who wants to read that? I'm having to ask myself if I'm going too far, not far enough.
For me, if I can't interject ANY amount of humor into a situation, it's probably way too dark, TOO real. I'm learning that it can be difficult to find the balance, but I'm working on it.
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