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Joined: 3/30/2011
Posts: 5
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As with many of the people who posted earlier, I only really have a problem with abuse and/or cheating.
Personally, I love characters with issues. The gambling/addiction wouldn't bother me. There are authors who have handled that beautifully (JR Ward comes to mind. Phury had a nasty addiction to red smokes that he had to overcome).
I would even say that being promiscuous isn't an issue. I like characters who own their sexuality or are dealing with underlying issues that bring out destructive sexual practices.
I guess I just like damaged characters! As long as they aren't damaged past the point where they can come back and end up healthier by the end of the book.
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Joined: 3/12/2011
Posts: 376
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Another big part of a serious romance would be the person's partner's acceptance of the flaw. To me, the acceptance of who a person is, while still wanting them to be what they could be, is a big part of love, which ought to be at least a part of romance, ne?
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Joined: 3/4/2011
Posts: 15
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Alexander, I knew that when I posted. I read the whole thread. What I say applies to the romance genre, IMO.
As an aside, I also don't see the point of romance only having HEA, and in reading not just print romance genres, but also e-book romance genres, I've noticed that contemporary writers do not always stick to HEA endings. (On top of which, what exactly makes an ending "happy" is subjective and defined differently by each reader. Many of the "HEA" endings of novels I've read would be my personal definiton of living in a nightmare.)
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 24
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Pedophilia and beastiality. Those two things...I can't even imagine writing something like that.
Reading? Maybe. I'm always willing to try anything. But writing? Hell no. I wouldn't be able to bring myself to do it.
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 214
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@Audry
"Many of the 'HEA' endings of novels I've read would be my personal definition of living in a nightmare."
Mine, too. I wrote in the "tropes" post that I wish the "whoops I'm preggers" romance would GO AWAY. I am so sick of these. They are not romantic, to my mind. Who reads these anyway? When I read this specific type of romance in which the two characters end up in a HEA, I'm thinking, "Yeah, sure ..." because it works out entirely differently in real life. I would not write one of these even if someone paid me.
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 222
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Wow, what an active and interesting discussion.
I don't really think there is an unacceptable character flaw. It all depends on the writer and the strength of the story. Cheating can turn tragedy into renewal -- the character tries to redeem him or herself of an act done in haste... more struggle, more anguish, more interest.
More real.
Now, granted, I usually take my romance in a fantasy setting. That might make all of the difference.
One of the greatest romances I read, though, dealt with where the hero and heroine didn't reconcile at the end of the long series. It was gritty, truthful and done in such a way where however much I wanted them to get together at the end, it made sense that they did not -- the relationship -- and its destruction at the end -- just made the story that much richer.
Character flaws are only limited by the writer's ability to present them, I feel. Whether romance or another genre. Sometimes the best stories are where the hero is either a villain or a coward and must rise above those flaws. Even the worst of them.
Just my two cents!
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Joined: 3/12/2011
Posts: 376
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@LisaMarie - Y'know, I was just rereading this thread and had a moment of revelation. Since by your statement you'd be the biggest detractor of the idea, I figured I'd run it up your flagpole and see if you salute.
I get that 'whoops I'm preggers' is not romantic. It is even anti-romantic. Romance is all about building trust, and one of the few things that would demonstrate a lack of trustworthiness more than getting pregnant accidentally would be getting pregnant 'accidentally on-purpose'. The former suggests someone is irresponsible, the latter flat out states that the person is manipulative and untrustworthy.
Now, given all that, an accidental pregnancy is not going to promote romance, but... Every good story needs conflict. The conflict in a romance are generally the non-romantic or anti-romantic elements. What about a story where the conflict is based around the accidental pregnancy? In a way, it would wind up being one of those 'dealing with flaws' romances like @katerobert mentioned.
For example; a story where you have a hero and heroine who get together, hit it off, are well on their way to a HEA, and then... She gets in a family way. He steps back and says 'I'm going to help support our child", (because he's a good guy), "but you said you had contraception handled. You didn't, which means I can't trust you, so we can't be together now." And that's the *setup* for the story. Her trying to save the relationship she wants, despite what may have been a 'deliberate mistake' or may have been a complete fluke. Even better if she's not really sure. Him dealing with a woman he's obviously attracted to, but can't trust. Learning that trust is more about patterns and deliberate choices than single actions or mistakes, no matter how catastrophic.
Would that be a more palatable execution of the trope you're sick of?
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Joined: 5/5/2011
Posts: 37
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Two good examples of things that normally would not be okay for the main character are turned into okay status in these shows,
Prison break : murder, crime spree, stealing, cheating. its all there and yet we still
Dexter: serial murderer, cheating, lying, blaming a crime on an innocent bystander. But we like him cuz he killed other murderers so we associate him with a vigilant instead of a sociopath... its all about the inner motives that make what the main character acceptable or not... no matter how unacceptable their actions are.
House M.D. , same thing.
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Joined: 2/9/2012
Posts: 427
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More generally, I think it's a question of contextualizing character flaws. If there is a context and a backstory, then the character can still be sympathetic.
However, I think this can be more tricky in romance novels. @Stevie, Dexter and House prove your point nicely, but then they are not romance heroes! I feel like their flaws would be unacceptable in a romance genre setting.
What does everybody else think?
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