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Joined: 8/21/2011
Posts: 394
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I took a watercolor class last summer. My first painting looked like, well, crap, but by the third week, I really got the hang of it (even sold one!). Up until then, the only "painting" I had been doing was with special underglazes that you use like watercolors to paint images on tiles. I bought all the supplies and told myself that I would continue to paint when the class was over. Haven't touched a tube of paint since then. Still making the tiles, though.
It is a peaceful painting (wish I could see it larger!). I can hear the waves and seagulls; smell the salt air.
Painters, photographers, tile makers - we certainly seem to be an artistic bunch!
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Joined: 10/20/2011
Posts: 350
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"Painters, photographers, tile makers - we certainly seem to be an artistic bunch!"
I wouldn't be surprised if there were also musicians amongst us. I play the guitar. Anyone else?
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Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662
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I was a serious art student at one point. I did oil glaze, and mixed media. My mixed media consisted of ink or charcoal, and water color. I also used Prismacolor pencils. I haven't done any finished work in years, but I have done cartoons of my characters with ball point. I'm trying to get back in the rhythm so I can paint again. Right now I'm so rusty I think I suck big time.
I also am pretty capable a crafts and other projects. Here is the link to binding my own book.
http://militaryhousewriter.blogspot.com/2012/01/how-to-bind-your-own-book.html
It turned out pretty good.
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Joined: 3/21/2012
Posts: 33
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I played the drums in the high school band. I still can't do a decent drum roll though.
I love crafts. I just finished a plastic canvas carrying case for my kindle today. I want to learn cross stitching, too. I make bookmarks and try to sell them online. Here's the link:
http://yardsellr.com/yardsale/Jess-Crupe-481253
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Joined: 11/17/2011
Posts: 1016
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Jessica,
Great idea! I never have enough bookmarks. I'll check yours out. I often use rubber bands as bookmarks. How tacky, eh?
This past fall, at the annual library book sales, two of the books I bought, both seventy or so years old, each had a fabulous antique paper book mark in it. I'm a graphic artist, and I immediately thought, I can reproduce that, or make something similar.
You inspire me to give it a try.
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Joined: 8/21/2011
Posts: 394
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LeeAnna - Loved the bookbinding. When I was in college, I worked in the campus library. We had someone come in once a month or so to repair/rebind the older books by hand.
Jessica - Cross-stitching is easy. Since you know how to stitch on the plastic canvas, you should be able to pick up cross-stitching fairly quickly. I had cross-stitched a set of bookmarks years ago and still use them (when I'm not reading a book on my Kindle). The last things I stitched were sets of bibs for my niece and great nephew who were born two weeks apart two and half years ago (one of my brothers became a new father while the other became a new grandfather).
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 279
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Alexandria, I play the piano and the guitar.
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Joined: 8/21/2011
Posts: 394
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The makings of a BC band!
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Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662
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Thanks for the book-binding love. I did it as a Christmas project for my mom. She kept nagging me about reading my book, so I decided to make it special. The whole project cost me $2 for the glue.
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Joined: 10/20/2011
Posts: 350
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@Angela: "The makings of a BC band!"
Indeed. Anyone care to be lead singer?
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Joined: 1/10/2012
Posts: 192
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Haha - I'll sing. I'm no soloist, but I do enjoy singing in my car...on my way to work. It's the only time I have alone, and it helps keep the road rage at bay! 
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Joined: 1/9/2012
Posts: 22
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Another guitarist here. I also do tatting, which is a form of lacemaking. I think a lot of writers have another creative side to them.
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Joined: 4/27/2011
Posts: 608
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Burnt out? Need a break? A laugh? A demented, wildly-enthusiastic "pause-that-refreshes"?
Mahna mahna! (Because sometimes, gibberish is enough. Take that, perfectionist wordsmiths everywhere . . .)
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1303/ma_na_ma_na/
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Joined: 11/17/2011
Posts: 1016
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Angela, Alexandria, LeeAnna, Rhyll, everyone!
This is fascinating, how many of us are creative in a number of ways. It just has to come out, doesn't it?
This is what we all have in common, we all have to express ourselves, to send something new into the world, damn the odds of any great success, and I say, it's absolutely marvelous.
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Joined: 8/21/2011
Posts: 394
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Well put, Mimi!
Carl - I was beginning to think you had abandoned us, then you return with a video of the lead singer for the BC Band!
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Joined: 4/27/2011
Posts: 608
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Re: Angela: not at all! But it's been a couple of weeks, I'll tell you. Two funerals, a divorce, work changes/challenges, etc. 'Nuff said? I'm fried/frazzled--what's the third word in this series? Fragant? Fructivored? Frankincense? Point is: I'm taking my own advice and stepping away for awhile to re-charge my own batteries.
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Joined: 8/21/2011
Posts: 394
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Carl - Rewind, recharge, refocus - do whatever you have to do. We'll all be here when you come back.
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Carl  We shall burn a candle on both ends until you return.
Take care.
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Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662
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See ya' later, Carl. I will still be here stalking threads when you get back. Take care!
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Joined: 4/27/2011
Posts: 608
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Thanks guys! Be well.
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Joined: 3/21/2012
Posts: 33
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Huggles to you Carl. I've got a lot going on now two. I have till the end of the summer to get a job of be in college. But before I get a job, I have to get my anxiety and my stomach problems under control. My sleep has been messed up too. UGH! i'm ALWAYS tired.
Sorry, everyone. I don't mean to burden you all with my whining.
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Joined: 5/25/2011
Posts: 121
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Good luck to you Carl. Just remember we're all awaiting the next Carl Reed Opus, or even better Opera, (as Kevin would say!).
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Joined: 11/17/2011
Posts: 1016
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Carl,
You kick-start our best discussions with your astute and colorful observations. We miss you already.
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Joined: 6/7/2011
Posts: 467
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Hello William.
I'd be interested in hearing a little more about these new ideas. Are you strictly an e-publisher, or are you planning to do print as well?
Personally, I think the biggest thing I would look for in a publisher would be wide distribution and a strong and varied marketing platform. Like a lot of us here, I feel fairly helpless when it comes to marketing, though I know that these days everyone is expected to self-promote.
- Atthys Gage
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Joined: 8/21/2011
Posts: 394
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Hi, William,
I agree with Atthys - having the publisher handle the marketing and distribution means a lot to me. I work in medical publishing and my company seems to invest a lot of money into its marketing departments (sometimes more so than it invests in editorial!). But as someone on the editorial production side of the business, I'm glad we have a strong marketing department. I don't want to have to think about that stuff (and neither does my editor-in-chief or managing editor). I just want to concentrate on producing the best content in as timely a fashion as possible.
As a writer who would love to be published some day, again, I don't want to have to think about marketing (I really wouldn't know where to begin). I just want to concentrate on my craft - on producing the best work I can.
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Joined: 11/17/2011
Posts: 1016
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Hi William,
I agree with Atthys and Angela. I am as far from a natural marketer as one can be. I am an introvert. I can promote myself for a short time, then I collapse, my energy for interaction depleted.
I e-mailed you with a question, yesterday, I believe: Can you tell us a bit about your background? Have you experience as an editor, or an agent, or a writer who has investigated self-publishing with some success? We'd love to know.
Editing is a costly business. How do you finance it? I would gladly pay for a professional eye, from future earnings, to have the burden lifted from my shoulders.
A vetting of this sort, similar to what a traditional publisher would do, is itself a valuable sales tool, a stamp of approval. It is this (I hope I have not misunderstood the information on your website) that attracts me, rather than the prospect of saving a few thousand dollars on the cost of a go-it-alone effort.
Promotion, beyond the bare-bones listing that we can do ourselves, is also a strong lure. Tell us more.
Lastly, I am a graphic artist. I hope to design and illustrate my shorter pieces, which are in verse. Are you open to picture books?
Even Sly, my lengthy comic adventure, while not for children, will have designed chapter heads and one full page image per chapter, in the grand tradition of early twentieth century children's classics.
A new player in this game is very welcome, especially if he has a fresh strategy and/or a record of accomplishment.
Welcome to Book Country!
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Interesting concept. Apparently (and I Do Not speak for them) Bookkus Publishing encourages writers to put completed manuscripts on their website for review. If the reviews are good enough, they might epublish the book and market it through social websites. If sales are good enough they might publish it in hardcopy. This approach sounds like a possible win-win-win for the author, the publisher and anyone who buys the book to read it.
Colleen are you catching this? Is this something Penquin could do?
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Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662
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I must say that I am intrigued, William. Like Deckard, I believe that it does sound like a win-win for the author. I like the idea of a publisher trying to actually support its writers so that they might do the best work possible. I will have to keep on eye on Bookus.
I would have questions, but I believe that Atthys, Angela, and Mimi already beat me to them.
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Joined: 4/6/2012
Posts: 12
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Wow! This thread is moving so fast I'm having a rather difficult time climbing on board. It reminds me of the early 90s when chat rooms were big and making any attemt to integrate yourself into a conversation was remeniscent of jumping smoothly into an already actively swinging set of double-dutch. Yeah, I never did that well either.
Seeing as it's been a couple of days since the last response I will take this break to gracefully segue (...or not) into another topic which has been on my mind: balancing description and pace. How much should a writer leave unspoken?
I've had the opportunity to read through several BC stories now and what I've found is that there is a very fine balance between being regrettably vague and providing overly descriptive text. Personally, I lean towards the "more is better" philosophy (aka: a whole bunch of words) but this is sometimes tedious for the writer and the reader. I was curious as to how others who write, or simply enjoy reading, feel about the subject. Do you prefer wading through hefty details or would you rather be subjected only to the bare minimum? Where do you find your balance?
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Joined: 3/21/2012
Posts: 33
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I have a hard time with that myself. I rush too much.
Completely off topic, I just started two blogs. The first on is amine reviews. Here is the link: http://legnasanimerevies.blogspot.com/
The other is a Craft blog. Here is that link: http://craftangel.blogspot.com/
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 244
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I just attended a writer's conference this weekend. There were several agents and an editor there from NYC and they did a "Simulating the Slush Pile" panel. One of the first pages that was read, the agents were mixed on because of the amount of detail. The writer had put several adjectives with each noun, several adverbs with the verbs, and the person reading the page aloud for them had really struggled to read through it. Another panel I attended at the conference, the presenter continually reminded us that one amazing, telling detail can take the place of several mediocre ones.
Too much description, to many adjectives, can trip your reader up. Conversely, too few details and you become vague and coy to the point of excess.
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Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662
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Listen to Steph. She's saying what I have heard over and over again. The right word can give the whole picture. Don't use more words. It is tedious to read. If you can't find the right word, try a comparison of some kind, but don't go overboard with these. To many similes and metaphors at once can also get jumbles and hard to read. The balance is hard to achieve, but it is achievable.
As for pacing and detail, this one is even harder. As a pacing stickler, I try to blend my details into my story progression. I'll give you and example of what that usually looks like.
Jacob chewed on the end of his blue sleeve. Where was Alice? She was always at the bus stop by now. He scraped the bottom of his canvas shoes against the sidewalk as he glanced at the flower he held in his other hand. The pink daisy had not yet wilted. It was fresh, he had stolen it from his neighbor's garden this morning. It was perfect; large and bright. A pink daisy for the girl with the pink ribbons. A tiny smile grew on his round face at the thought of her sweet smile and the Hello Kitty bandages on her knees.
The patter of shoes on the pavement reached his ears. With wide eyes he looked up to see her with her brown hair flying. His smile grew to a grin as she waved at him.
I think I should stop before I get carried away. The point of the example was to blend the details in with the scene of the kid waiting for his little crush. I could have easily said that Jacob was in elementary school with a blue shirt and canvas shoes in once sentence. Piling on the details at once can also make it hard to read. I actually see some I probably should cut out, but I think you get the idea. Details with the action. That should help your pacing issues. Not details before or after the action. That gets tiresome.
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Joined: 4/6/2012
Posts: 12
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One of the things that I like to do is use description to set the tone of my story. If someone is feeling a certain, strong emotion, I can most certainly show this through their actions, but its also fun to have it reflected in their environment. When I'm writing from a singular character's perspective and they are feeling particularly dour they are not likely to focus on sunshine and singing birds even when those things are present. I imagine that, instead, they focus on the dismal, bleak and dreary. This is what I try to describe so that the reader can more accurately connect with the character.
On a slightly different note, I attempt, only sometimes successfully, to string words together to give the story a spicific rhythm. I remeber in high school reading Edgar Allan Poe's The Bells. Reading it aloud, the words come together, blending, ringing so that it sounds like bells. I love experimenting with this concept - using individual syllables to create sounds that reflect what I'm trying to say.
But, considering the length of my first draft, I could stick with what both of you (Steph and LeeAnna) have suggested and probably cultivate an equally "pretty" story with a significantly shorter word count.
Reading this over I realize that I might need to practice a teeny bit if I want to cut back on my usage of adjectives.
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Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662
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I have found that single adjectives can have a stronger function than multiple ones before a noun. Why don't you sit down and try to write a scene only doing that. It's also a great practice in word usage. It'll help you find that one right word, versus two just okay words.
As for fun things to do with words in your writing, I like alliteration. You'll see it quite frequently in my writing. I don't know why I use it, I just do.
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Joined: 2/9/2012
Posts: 427
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Bumping this up! Open threads are always fun...
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Joined: 6/14/2012
Posts: 194
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Open threads are always fun
Yank the end and watch them run
Never know where they will go
As they wander to and fro.
Sorry. But it is an open thread and I had a ball of yarn sort of disintegrate in my hands the other day after yanking at a tangled bit.
Mmm. Colleen set this up as open, but also an introductory thread. So--I've got 20+ books on the shelves, all SF or fantasy, with one borderline (near-future SF or spec-mainstream) and a fair bit of experience (three US book publishers--medium, small, and large, some books in multiple languages, multiple editors in US and elsewhere), but am very aware that my way isn't the highway for everyone. What I hope to do here is share some experience, maybe pick someone else's brain from time to time...but I'm likely to be gone for longish periods as I have these deadline things, plus several blogs and websites to tend, plus the nonwriting LifeStuff (family, other projects.) I can play here sometimes, but not daily and maybe not even weekly.
The one rule of writing I think should not be broken? Don't bore the reader.
That's it. That's the nutshell with the gold florin inside.
.
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I laughed so hard yesterday. I just have to share this somewhere.
I was sitting at the Apex table at The Scarefest handing my bookmarks to everyone who passed the table. I looked up and saw one of my neighbors across the way - as crowded as it was, if I had looked up a split second later, we'd have missed each other. We saw each other at the same time, and he grabbed his wife and came over to the table.
He: what are you doing here?
me: working.
He: :blink blink blink:
me: :explains apex and my books and editing:
His Wife:  ying laughing so hard that all she can do is sputter, "Mari!" every few minutes:
He: well, i had no idea! an editor! and a writer! why didn't we know this?
me: i dunno how you missed it.
Gosh, so hard to get it through online. But the three of us were laughing so hard, we all had tears streaming down our faces. And I thought His Wife was going to pass out if she laughed any harder.
I told them, "Take one of my bookmarks and my business card."
He: yeah, we'll talk later.
me: well, it's not like you don't know where i live.
His Wife: :wheezes she's laughing so hard: oh mari, this is so wrong.
me: hug Zazzy* for me when you get home!
He: man, this is so insane!
me: go figure. we have to go to the scarefest to see each other.
He: rags his laughing wife further down the aisle:
me: :sits there laughing until i can't breathe:
Life is so bizarre.
* sweetest basset hound i know!
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* LeeAnna I, too, like alliteration. I use it as sparingly as possible. Sometimes it just pops out.
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Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662
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Look, people live! This thread need some CPR.
@MariAdkins: It's nice that you saw your neighbor. A good hard laugh is great therapy, even if everything is all ice cream and gum drops. And it just feels good.
I also have a soft spot for Jeff Lindsay's Dexter books because of alliteration. (I have never been a fan of the TV series. I looses something.)
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Yeah - every time I've thought about that today, I've laughed. It's probably one of those, "You had to be there," things. Even so!
I never cared for the TV series, either. Then, I'm 'not a TV person', so there's that. The books are wonderful, though, yes.
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Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662
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I have friends that love the series, but have never read the books. It makes me tear up a bit because I know they like reading.
As for Game of Thrones, the books are so dense, I don't mind just watching the show. XP
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I have the Game of Thrones books. The sheer size is humbling. XD
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Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662
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I've read all of them but the last one. I started them before I even knew there was going to be a show. Oh well. At least I know what's going to happen.
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Joined: 9/28/2012
Posts: 9
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Same here LeeAnna, I haven't got the 5th book, even though I'm a HUGE fan of the series. I finished Storm of Swords (book 3) before the show premiered, then struggled through Feast for Crows. Waiting for Dance of Dragons to come out on paperback, to match the rest of my set.
I think the TV show has done an exceptional job translating the words of Martin to the screen. Probably one of the best book-to-screen projects I've ever seen. I just can't wait to see what they do with Season 3...so much good material! I've heard they may split the 3rd book into two seasons?
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Joined: 11/17/2011
Posts: 1016
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Has anyone read the new Rowling book yet? I've seen one somewhat negative review, one very good review, and one amazing one, in Time magazine. (A review you would kill for. In the current issue. Look at it, if you're in your dentist's office, as I was.)
Makes me want to run out and buy it and, as a big fan of those one-dollar-or-less annual library sales, very few books make me want to spend big bucks for anything.
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Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662
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@Michael: While Martin's work is a masterpiece, I'm not a raving fan. I like it well enough and appreciate it, but he has too much unnecessary detail for my taste. I have a tendency to drift off.
Storm of Swords I believe was the best out of his books that I've read so far. The fourth one kind of drug it's feet around. I wouldn't be surprised if 3 is split into two seasons because it'll be another 5 years before we get the sixth book.
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Joined: 9/28/2012
Posts: 9
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@ Mimi - I haven't read it, but I've heard about it over the past couple weeks. Seen it promoted in a lot of different places. Haven't yet heard a review on it either. Supposed to be more adult oriented correct?
@ LeeAnna - Totally agree about the detail dump that Martin puts in his books. I will find myself a few times in one of his books just skimming over the details, haha. But the overall plot and characters...it's just...so perfectly done. Amazing.
Storm of Swords is by far the best out of the four I've read. I don't think I've ever closed a book out of shock so many times. I believe we both know a perfect scene for producers to end season three, if they do split the book into two seasons; possibly mixing some of Feast for Crows into the fourth season?
Crows was a pretty big disappointment. It had its moments, but I'm hoping that Dance with Dragons reclaims the epic feel of Swords. I've heard that is does and rivals Swords as readers' favorite so far.
Hopefully he gets the sixth book finished in a reasonable amount of time...haha.
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Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662
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They should actually blend Feast and Storm together because the books over lap. That would be ideal for the story telling, but I actually think Martin has gotten carried away with his story. For me, it's lost impact.
I should be chomping at the bit to read Dances with Dragons, but I'm not. He digresses with so many locations and POVs that the main story gets lost in the meandering political intrigue. Winter was coming how many books ago? That was the point, was it not? These are writers everyone should ask themselves. So what if there is so much petty posturing going on. I want to know what is going to happen with these wights. I always go back to the prologue in Game of Thrones. That sets up the Plot-A (to use TV serial terminology) just right. These are 600 to 800 page books. I'm tired of reading Plot-B, Plot-C, and Plot-D. I hope Dances simplifies what Martin intends, because I'm close to not caring about the left over Stark kids.
I know this probably sounds like some picky reader's rambling, but from what I've learned about writing, Martin is a pretty poor example. I actually think I have a thread about this in the Fantasy section.
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Joined: 9/28/2012
Posts: 9
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I've heard that from several people actually, so it definitely doesn't sound like picky reader's rambling at all. Just sounds like you have a solid opinion.
I will surely agree with you that plot-A has all but been forgotten, except in small parts of Jon/Sam's chapters. Plot-B,C,D, etc. have all taken center stage, as well as a LOT of different character development. Though, these different plots don't often get experienced in a fantasy book (political struggles, etc.), most of the time it just jumps straight to the dragons, magic and "others." So, that could be why I can't get enough of these characters and what they will do next. Also, Martin leaves you at the edge of your seat with each page turn, because out of nowhere, one of your favorite characters could bite the dust...which, sounds like a bad thing, but that type of suspense isn't seen much in other fantasy books. Usually, the hero saves the day and is invincible throughout the story...and with this series, anyone could be killed, and honestly there are times where you aren't exactly sure who the heroes or villains are, they tend to blend together.
I'm hoping the Dance starts heading back toward Plot A, I'm expecting it to since we are only a couple books away from the ending. But, I believe the TV producers agree with what you are saying because they seem to be (*possible spoiler alert*) rushing the White Walkers onto the show with the season 2 finale.
Sorry, totally turned this thread into a Game of Thrones topic!
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Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662
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My problem isn't that the politcal intrigue and other "non-magical" plots have taken over. It's that he established the magic plot as Plot-A, and pretty much pushed it to the side.
As for Martin killing off characters that are likable, there is a problem with too much death. Killing off characters to the extent that he does has a couple effects. They can turn off readers (Not a problem he really has, apparently.), or the readers my stop connecting with the characters for fear that the investment may be for naught. Death can also become so prevalent, that it is no longer meaningful. Especially since he seems to pop in 5 more character per every one offed.
(In best Monty Python accents.)
"Did you hear what happened to the dragon slayer?"
"He died, like the wraith slayer in the last chapter."
"I'm going to stop relying on these people if they can't survive some pathetic little highway men."
"I know. I thought this was supposed to be a fantasy story. Not the history of the world. Next thing you know, people are going to be dropping like flies from the plague."
I don't know if you get my point, but all the dark and dreary makes me feel like I'm watching a conservative news channel. Maybe if Martin could lighten the mood more often, I would be fine with his alternative approach to fantasy. After one of his books, I have to hunker down with a good Christopher Moore to bring the light back into my life.
I also could care less who is a hero and who is a villain. Their are damn to many characters, period. Martin needs to learn to kill of the superfluous ones before he touches the main characters.
Sorry if I'm getting a bit grumpy. He's talented, but there are many more writers out there who have warped their fantasy worlds effectively without stepping into the medieval realm. That is probably my biggest pet peeve. I'm a little tired of it. I think it would have been more entertaining as a space opera, but whatever. (That idea was so random, and now that I think about it, it would be kinda cool.)
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