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Joined: 5/10/2011
Posts: 88
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Ok, so Brand Names. Should they be used in fiction? Should you call your computer a Mac or an Apple or a Toshiba, or a Samsung (instead of just "computer" or PC)... Should you call your shoes Nike? (swoosh!) or your drink "Corona" "Heiniken" (sorry for the spelling) etc. etc. instead of "beer"??
I ask because I've been told not to use brand names... except if it serves a purpose (like to show how sophisticated someone is... or to show how computer savvy, etc) but for generic things - say the juice my character is drinking, should I say "she drank a glass of orange juice" or "she drank a glass of Tropicana"?
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Joined: 6/7/2011
Posts: 467
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Hi Lisa; I've pondered this question a few times myself. Mostly, I think it comes down to sounding natural. I would probably use 'orange juice' instead of 'Tropicana', but would tend to use Cheetos instead of cheese puffs. This is especially true in dialogue (who would really say "Hey, wanna get a cola?" instead of "Hey, wanna get a coke?") Obviously, this is no sort of answer other than responding to what your internal critic tells you sounds best.
I suppose that the advice not to use brand names is fear of sounding dated or trendy. This might be an issue with Red Bull, but some products are so ubiquitous as to be almost generics (such as Coke, Kleenex, even Mac) even when using the brand name.
In short, I wouldn't sweat it.
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Joined: 5/10/2011
Posts: 88
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That makes perfect sense, thanks Atthys! I guess my biggest worry is copywrite infringement and/or advertising "plugs". In movies (which are a different animal) when they show us, even subtly, a brand logo, I get distracted by the plug.
Personally, I haven't been that distracted by when I read... but I think that's because the authors all follow the policy of being natural about it... or they didn't use it at all.
Something for me to ponder I guess!
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Joined: 3/11/2011
Posts: 29
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Hi, Lisa. I know I responded to this on my comments thread, but I thought I'd weigh in here, too.
I very rarely use brand names. Like Atthys mentioned above, some are pretty universal - Coke, Kleenex, etc. But other than those, I steer away from them. I hate product placement. When I read it in books, it actually takes me out of the narrative because I expect to see the lead character jump into a commercial. The biggest reason I don't use brands, though, is because if I don't want to date my book. Sometimes I see a brand or even the name of a specific person (ex: "...eyes like Robert Redford") in a story and think, "wow, this is old." My feeling is that anyone from any place, background, economic group and time period should be able to pick up my story and feel like this could have happened in the present moment.
Besides, sometimes it's more fun to just let the audience fill in the blank. If I write, "I chugged my soda because I needed the caffeine," the reader can plug in "Mt. Dew" or whatever they may prefer and that creates another bond with the character.
your mileage may vary.
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Shouldn't dialog should reflect the real world? People might say,
“Let’s go get a coke,” So why not your character? No one cares if you use a product name in a positive way. If you say, “Meet me later at Starbucks” that company isn’t going to hate you because it puts the brand name out where people can see it.. But have a character talk trash about the chain, or be the kind of character they would toss from the place, normally, and they will care.
Few people say, “Get me a glass of Tropicana,” but in response to “Do you have any orange juice,” they might ask if that brand is okay. The key is that if you’re going to be specific the reader has to know what you mean, even if it’s ten years after you wrote the story and in a place a thousand miles away. And, in mentioning a specific brand, that act must in some way set the scene, advance the plot, or develop character. In other words, be necessary.
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Joined: 4/27/2011
Posts: 26
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Brand names always say something subtle about people's world view/demographic. Saying a person has high heel shoes might mean something, but if you say something like Chanel, the person would look rich. If you go with a brand that usually goes with people who aren't financially stable, it also states something about the person.
Something like a Mac would tell a person that he has a good amount of money, is liberal and is more likely to be part of a creative agency. A Linux user has many possible interpretations, but it ranges from an open source fanatic to a shell scripter who wants more control.
Even the choice of programming languages can give subtle hints(this depends on your demographic, but it doesn't hurt to educate.) Languages like Python usually means the person likes less code. Having Java as the main weapon in the arsenal usually means that the person wants job security.
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Joined: 11/17/2011
Posts: 21
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Brands have a place in fiction, because they do define both the script and the characters. If my hero uses a Glock 9mm, it says something far different from those who carry a Beretta .25. A drinker of Maker's Mark is a different person from one who drinks Jack Daniels. Battles rage between Ford truck owners and Chevy fans. The point is that these subtleties give context to the writing. Product placements in the movies are advertising, bought and paid for. That is why no motion picture ever shows a desktop computer that is not a Mac. But in writing, detail sometime demands that you name the product. If you claim that the hero picks up a pistol and begins to fire, you'd best be aware of whether it fires six shots or nine, since all pistols are not alike. It's a question of accuracy.
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This is a great topic! When I was a full-time editor, this came up a lot actually, particularly during the copyediting stage. CE's always wanted to remove any brand reference, but I disagree with that "rule."
As most of you have said, I think brands can certainly a time, place, and role in a story. It's a balancing act though because while brands can enhance a culture or a time period, give impressions about your characters, etc., that enhancement can make a book feel "dated." Dating the book is the main reason why people have such strong opinions about brand names in fiction.
So, you have to really think about whether or not the brand is something well-known enough, not only for the reader to know it and not get confused, but also to withstand time. You don't want to fill a book with brand references that 10 years from now will be rare or even obsolete. Because then your book loses some of its potential to be "timeless."
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Joined: 5/10/2011
Posts: 88
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Ok, so it seems there are many thoughts, with "use your own judgement" as the main guideline for whether or not to specify brand. I definitely agree that if I mention a brand, it has to further the plot in someway or have a purpose. The brand itself would serve to highlight the character/moment in someway...
However, I'm a bit torn on the idea of "timeless" - is it better to provide brands to set the stage for your characters & reveal the world your narrative is set it? Or is it better to provide a brand neutral narrative that anyone can relate to? If I look at the works of Shakespeare, Dickens and even Conrad, I don't recall any specific use of brand name off the top of my head, but the language itself dated their works. Just as our language will date our work. Does not using brand names really effect the timelessness of our narrative?
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That's very true, Lisa. There are a number of things in a manuscript that could date it. I'm not necessarily saying I agree but it's a big part of the argument when I've chatted with people who hate brand names in their fiction. The first book I acquired actually got a bit of criticism from reviews and readers for including brand names--it personally worked for me (clearly haha I was the editor and left it in!) but some of the real "traditionalists," if you will, aren't as accepting.
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Joined: 6/7/2011
Posts: 467
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I tend to come down in favor of using brand names, unless you're just being trendy. In some cases, (iPod, Coke, Kleenex) it just seems silly trying to avoid it. But more than that, I like the sense of place and time that their use can provide. Consider Dashiell Hammett's nameless operative who always smokes Fatimas. Fatimas haven't been on the market for about 40 years, but it doesn't interfere with my enjoyment of the books in the least.
Simply put, we can't really know what is going to be trendy or nonexistent twenty years from now, so just go with what seems natural and let the future worry about it. If your work is good enough to be read twenty years from now, no one is going to care about a couple of brand names.
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Joined: 8/21/2011
Posts: 394
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If a story is set in the year 2011, then that's the year the characters are living in and I would expect to see references to items, foods, bands, TV shows, movies, and so on that interest the characters. If a character, for example, loves Oreo cookies, I wouldn't expect the character to call them "chocolate sandwich cookies" - using the brand name "Oreo" would immediately convey something about the character to me.
And unless a story is set in the future, all fiction originally set in what was the present becomes "dated" within a few years, but that doesn't mean the story becomes any less interesting. If the work inspires the reader and urges him or her to read to the end (and perhaps even to reread), and the reader then recommends the work to others, then the story becomes timeless.
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Joined: 1/11/2012
Posts: 1
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As a newspaper columnist, I remember several instances about brand names, for instance, "styrofoam." I wrote something in which the word "styrofoam" appeared. Two weeks later I got a letter from lawyers for the styrofoam company, saying I had violated trademark laws. I have not worried about such transgressions for many years, but now, teaching principals and practices of mass media, I know that product placement includes a contract for compensation somewhere. Coke cans don't get onto the American Idols judges' table for free. How it applies to fiction writing today? I don't know. Maybe we could Google it.
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