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Joined: 1/10/2012
Posts: 192
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Hey guys. I was wondering... how can one become disciplined in writing? I've read that in order to complete a manuscript and even begin to hope for getting it published, you must write every day. I find this much like working out: often, I go to town and really put in great QT and feel so proud of myself. Sometimes I don't feel like getting off my butt; other times I'm sick of it. Every so often, I think, why bother at all?
So, my question to you all is: how do we become gym rats of writing? 
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Joined: 2/27/2011
Posts: 353
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Bumping this up so others can see it.
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Joined: 1/10/2012
Posts: 192
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Thanks, Colleen!
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Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662
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I had a college professor practically beat it into me. If someone said "I have writer's block," he would roll his eyes and say, "That's bullshit. You have to write every day empty out your imagination. The more you write, the more your imagination will fill. You have to empty the cup to fill it. Understand?" He was hard on writing discipline. I took his classes just to work on mine.
This is what I do: I carry a notebook with me. Any chance I get I jot something down. I try to write a sentence a day, or a little of an outline. Once you get into the flow, writing will become an itch you have to scratch.
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Joined: 6/28/2011
Posts: 188
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For many years, I just refused to let myself go to bed if I hadn't written at least briefly on a current project. It might be a page, or it might be just a paragraph or even a sentence, but unless I was deathly ill or had some other urgent reason, I did my absolute best to move forward every day on whatever I was writing. I finished four books that way, one in two years and the other three in about a year apiece.
In the last couple of years, I've been slacker in my habits, and I often miss two or three nights a week these days. The result has been a lower level of momentum and greatly reduced productivity. Six to seven nights a week worked out to about 120,000 words a year. Four to five has gotten me well under half that -- maybe about 30,000 words annually. There are some extenuating personal circumstances too, but the basic principle is pretty clear: if I write every day, inertia works with me. If I don't, it turns against me.
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Dang! I just answered this on another thread: I went out and bought an old watch
Scroll down at
http://www.bookcountry.com/Community/Discussions/Default.aspx?id=131183&page=46
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Joined: 5/25/2011
Posts: 121
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Well, for me there’s writing phase and revision phase. When I’ve mentally fleshed out an idea for a story I’ll sit down and start hammering away at the keyboard. This is the toughest part because (as I think we all know) what often seems clear in your head somehow gets balky when you try to get it onto the screen. If I stall, that’s when I turn to another WIP and go into revision mode. I tend to print out each draft in hardcopy (I recycle a lot of paper), so in revision mode I sit down with my red pen and work. Sometimes it’s just mechanical stuff (Damn! I used that same word three times in two sentences. Reach for thesaurus.) Other times it’s plot, characterization, etc. (He would not say that! Wait a minute…what if….). Once I’ve gone through the MS, it’s back to the keyboard and enter the revisions (this could be a short story or chapter from a novel). That generally clears my head and I’m ready to get back to the story I stalled on with a fresh perspective. This sequence can occur over a couple of days, but it keeps me moving. Another thing that really helps (this is kind of a plug) is getting feedback on Book Country or other web sites and getting into a discussion on a WIP with another writer. The back and forth allows you to see your work as others do and very often is a big help and gets you through the stall.
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Joined: 1/10/2012
Posts: 192
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Tom - I like and admire your methods, but my 9-5 tends to interfere a lot with the whole idea and execution. Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds like you do a lot of writing. Time, for me, is the main issue.
As for the second item - getting feedback and starting a conversation on a WIP - the reviews were so helpful, but they have stalled out. And I'm all for discussions with a fellow kindred writer. Know of anyone willing? *wink*
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Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662
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Hey, I'm on the computer a lot. Feel free to send me a message, you know, like you used to. I actually am really looking forward to more of your WIP.
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Tom: "writing phase and revision phase." Thank you for that thought newb that I am, I never saw the writing in constituent parts. Planning the story, making notes, outlining - all that I've managed to break down & catagorize into a zillion parts. But to analyze the writing process itself? Makes my imagination buzz.
This proves your point, of course. The experiences of other Book Country writers can help you to see your own work process more clearly.
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Joined: 10/14/2012
Posts: 229
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Hi Laura
As far as the review search goes, and the 'stalling' of new reviews: I posted an invite 'Chapter by Chapter review and Edit swap' and was very fortunate in getting two takers, both of whom I am fast coming to admire. What's great is that rather than getting a multitude of (fun to get) but ultimately impractical, or unusable generalisms, you get specific areas, traits and sentences highlighted which are in need of attention. I've had so many great pointers that I'll be busy for a while editing, now having a clear idea of what needs done, and where. Feel free to use this thread to find folks who need, and are happy to give in return, honest, detailed and specific help.
Best of luck,
Michael
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Joined: 5/25/2011
Posts: 121
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Laura, It might sound that way, but life always intrudes. I started writing Agony of the Gods almost 6 years ago. I had thought it out quite a bit, but it wasn’t until I lost a close relative that I found the time and the therapeutic need to sit and write (something I had wanted to do for years). I got great help with my writing style on BC (see especially Kevin’s review), and I pretty much finished what I hope is the final draft last July. I got the idea for And The Last Shall Be First during the summer of 2011, and that took about a year (but it’s only 10% as long as Agony), again with really important feedback from BC writers (especially Carl and Lisa). Staircase only took about a month, but that was under deadline for submission to a contest on the Bookkus web site, and is only a little over 2000 words. I think I’ve finally finished A Streak of Silver in the Sky (early draft on BC), but I need to put it aside for a while before giving it a final read. While not in a regimented 9-5 job (I teach at a college), finding time is always a problem. I try to limit myself to an hour of tv per weeknight (just to catch up on the news), and if possible (when not grading things, or writing a report) I try to divide my time between writing and reviewing (and during the spring, summer and fall, hiking!). To do a good review (as I think Michael knows) I try to read things twice and then put some (hopefully) useful criticism in. Right now I’ve got about 5 WIP’s I’m working on reviewing between BC and Bookkus. Laura, I’m going to take a look at Aequitas this week (I hope), so you’ll be hearing from me. Same goes for you LeeAnna, started reading Hands of Ash the other night, but not progressed far enough to comment yet. And Mike’s book, The Desolate, is one I’m working on. Well, best wishes to all, and keep on writing. Now back to work. DocTom
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Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662
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Thanks for looking at Hands of Ash, Tom.
I've been doing some editing work on the manuscript and discovered that my last chapters are much better written then my previous ones. That is how long it's been since I touched them. I wish I could post pictures on here to show all the purple marks. Most of the marks are inspired by recommendations I've gotten from critiques on here, so I'm always looking forward to what other people have to say.
I also rewrote the opening scene because of the POV issue. I think it turned out better, but I only have my own tears to judge that by. Yes, I cried writing it. I'm such a softy.
Anyway, back the drive!
Oh yeah. I've been helping Angela Martello out with her Kaliphian Matters series. Her second book only has two reviews right now and she'd be grateful for the extra help. It really has a lot of promise. I'm actually getting stoked for the third book.
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Joined: 1/10/2012
Posts: 192
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LeeAnna - I'm not avoiding you. Well, perhaps I am a little, but it's truly only because I never finished going through Hands of Ash and I feel terrible about it. Not sure if you'd still like my feedback, but now that the holidays are over, I hope to re-dedicate myself and a little time each week to working on my stuff and helping others as well.
Tom - Thanks so much. I do like to reciprocate, but it sounds like you're past that point. And, as LeeAnna might tell you, I'm not very good at being swift.
Maybe I mismanage my time, but between work, raising a toddler and finding a little time for myself to keep my butt from looking like a pancake, it seems there's just never enough to write a little and read and review a little. *sigh*
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Joined: 1/10/2012
Posts: 192
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And Michael - thanks for the suggestion. I'll go check out the thread.
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Joined: 5/25/2011
Posts: 121
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Laura,
A toddler! Been there and done that twice so you have my eternal empahty, but enjoy! No problem, just posted a review for your consideration.
LeeAnna,
Nice job with Luke in first chapter. A good guy! You cried when you revised it? Good, it means your heart is really in it. There's at least one chapter in Agony where I hurt while writing. A friend read it and told me she had to put it down, too emotional. It means you're getting your story across. Will continue to read later this week.
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Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662
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Laura, don't worry. Raising a kid is a lot of work and the holidays are absolute havoc. You can keep reading if you want. I always like feedback. But if you can't, I totally understand.
Tom: Yeah, I cried. I actually had to stop writing it yesterday because I wouldn't be able to hold it together for the post-attack paragraph with Melody. I finished it today so I could move onto two more scenes I need to work on. And Luke is supposed to be a genuine good guy. He's probably one of the few in a book filled with gray area characters and villains.
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Joined: 11/17/2011
Posts: 1016
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How to keep at it? That's tough.
Well, I read. Right now I'm in the middle of a romp, written around 1850, that is on Elizabeth Moon's list of favorite books. Mr. Sponge's Sporting Tour is great fun, and I'm finding low-life nonsense that suggests a direction for problematic sections of my own low-life period piece set three hundred years earlier.
Reading does it for me, research. That's what gets me off my ass.
Discipline? A routine? Forget it.
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Joined: 5/28/2011
Posts: 22
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Tom, I know just what you mean. I didn't even start writing (other than tax research memos) until I lost a loved one. Haven't stopped since. I'm finally about ready to post another version on BC after some helpful criticism. At times I've gotten very discouraged, but I always remember I'm not writing for me, but for the person I lost.
I also have two toddlers, and I have one thing that really helps: riding the train into town. It makes my commute a little longer, but it gives me time to awkwardly prop my laptop on my knees and pound out a page or two. Not sure if you can do something similar in your situation, Laura, but I'd definitely recommend it.
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Personally, I've found if I push myself to write every day, my brain turns to pure mush. So, I have to spread things out. I edit here. I write there. I do something else another time. But it all gets done.
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Joined: 1/10/2012
Posts: 192
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Mari - I have to agree with you. I can certainly understand those who swear by writing something - anything - every day. But I also start getting mushy if I try that. Besides, if my heart's not in it on a particular day, I write crap, and what's the point if I'm only going to go back and delete it? Some might say it's still worth it because I might take the idea and use it, but if it's a really good idea, I wouldn't be tempted to delete it anyways. And when my brain is taxed, no good can come of it.
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Joined: 6/28/2011
Posts: 188
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Everyone is different, and what works for one writer will be a miserable failure for another. But with that said, my advice is to write even if you think what you're writing may be crap. Come revision time, I need to be prepared for all of it to be crap. I need to be ready to chop out and replace huge swaths of what I've written, or else I'll be tempted to merely tinker instead of truly revising. In fact, sometimes writing crap is the best possible outcome. If I pour my heart into crafting the most eloquent possible prose for every scene in my rough draft, not only will the draft take me two or three times as long to complete, but it will be that much harder to cut extraneous scenes when I go back to revise, because every one will represent so much sweat and angst. In contrast, if I speed through a first draft and have a scene here or there that's clearly sub-par, then the revision process is full of "oh, look how much better I'm making this" moments, which helps keep me energized in a process that otherwise can get very tedious for me.
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Joined: 1/10/2012
Posts: 192
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Herb - If what you say is true, than I will come to truly fear the revision process. And I find myself ashamed to say, I'm that person. I've put so much into 6 damn chapters, I may never finish my draft. Then I will cry rivers of pathetic tears when someone cuts it to ribbons. Crap. But it still goes against all I know to write crap. Maybe it's the former journalist in me. In that profession, you wrote your best always. Always. It's such a different animal than fiction writing, but my habits are proving hard to break, I guess. What is a unreformed journalist-turned-fiction-writer to do? I suppose that might be an entirely different thread, though.
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Joined: 6/28/2011
Posts: 188
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Yeah, when you're a journalist, it's going to leave your hands in a heartbeat and be forever beyond your control. You're also writing on a deadline, often an extremely tight one. But when you're a fiction writer, you get to determine when it's ready, and how long it takes to be done. That allows for a lot more fluidity, if you're able to relax some of your habits.
Another side of that is, the more you write, the more natural the writing will feel, and in general the better the prose will be as a result.
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Joined: 1/10/2012
Posts: 192
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Herb - Another, more optimistic way of looking at the comparison. I guess in my mind, I'm still thinking that the better it is in draft form, the less editing it will need. But in fiction writing, that's rarely true. So I need to loosen my grip, let it flow, and wait and see what revisions bring. Is that what you're telling me? Nah, that shouldn't be too hard. Ha ha.
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Herb, as I said earlier in this thread, if I write them my brain, heart, and mind just aren't into it, I get nowhere and just end up wasting time I could be using editing or reading (and getting paid!). I have ADHD. I have to give my brain breaks now and then. If I don't, I suffer for it.
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Joined: 6/28/2011
Posts: 188
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Mari, I hope nothing I've said comes across as dictating how anyone else should write. My intention is just to communicate what has worked for me, and to explain why. Some writers are held back by the idea that writing requires inspiration, a muse, a mood. In most cases (though I would never claim to know about all cases), this idea is misguided and lowers productivity. So when I encounter variations on the theme, I try to spell out the advantages I have found in not waiting to be "into it." But obviously you have to determine for yourself whether my perspective is applicable to your own circumstances and personality. As I said a few posts back, everyone is different. I'm not trying to convince you of anything; just provide a viewpoint in case someone might find it useful.
Laura, I'll add another advantage that I have found in making writing habitual and letting go of the desire to polish every sentence while I'm on my first draft. For me, learning to write good prose started with study, focus, good feedback, determination, and an openness of perspective -- an attempt to be self-aware in what I wrote, to always analyze and attempt to perfect things. But learning to write good prose dependably -- that has been almost entirely a matter of practice. Just as a good musician has to learn scales and chords and keys and cadences, so a good writer has to learn the tools of wordcraft. But all the music theory in the world won't enable someone to play fluidly at a professional level -- that requires a degree of practice by which the musician learns to do certain things without even thinking about them.
It's tempting to engage in the struggle to write a particular paragraph perfectly. But I'm much more interested in gaining a level of proficiency at which only the very rarest of paragraphs is a struggle.
Again, at the risk of being repetitious: your mileage may vary!
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Joined: 1/10/2012
Posts: 192
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Herb - Good points. And obviously, I would take all advice with a grain of salt, since who knows what will work and what won't. But I think it's true what you said about learning anything - it's a balance of study and practice. And I do hope to be a proficient someday. So off I go!
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