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Joined: 5/7/2011
Posts: 42
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This question comes up a lot -- and I am very much considering writing an essay on it -- and I thought I would post a brief abstract and get some feedback on it. Or perhaps not so much a question as a statement.
Question: what is Steampunk? Answer: you know, books like Jules Verne wrote.
Partly yes; mostly no. Here's why -- at least in my humble opinion.
Over the last 20 years, since The Difference Engine came out, I have been reading a fair amount of Steampunk and other *Punk works as a love of genre fiction and genre theory kept me going through high school, college, and beyond. A solid answer has truly begun to formulate in my head, though, as I've been writing more and more within the Steampunk sub-genre.
Thus my abstract:
Steampunk is, at its very core, a re-imagining of the past; whereas Victorian science fiction (works of Verne, Wells, Poe, and even Lovecraft) were visions of the future -- their future, granted, but future nonetheless. Thus their inclusion of things like steam-powered submersibles or hansom cabs or anything we typically think of as standards now in the Steampunk work were merely part of their society. Thus their novels -- 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and The Time Machine being the two most-oft referenced -- are not Steampunk but Victorian. Those works do, however, inspire us with their technology, because it was, beyond a doubt, well ahead of its time and certainly remarkable in its creation.
I'm welcome to debate, thoughts, comments, suggestions. I am working on a much larger argument that might very well show up in my portfolio. However, I feel that a distinction needs to be made -- and not because I am trying to say "my vision of Steampunk is right, and yours is wrong" -- because there is a big difference between this genre and Victorian science fiction. And with as many new writers as there are coming into the genre, I think that it can help a lot to know the difference between the inspirations behind the genre and theorigins of the genre.
So there's that.
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Joined: 8/7/2011
Posts: 6
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I've only recently discovered the Steampunk genre, and read only a couple of YA Steampunk books. That being said, I think you have an interesting point of view. But consider that if you applied the rule of "looking forward vs. looking backward" to all other SF, you might run into trouble. I'm trying to think of a good example of an SF novel, written in comtemporary times, that takes place in the past and doesn't have the Victorian atmosphere. I can't think of one.
Imagine "2001 A Space Odyssey" stopping after the apemen's brains were altered by the alien monolith. And there the story ends. You'd still have a contemporary science fiction story, but it would be set in the past, looking only to the past. In other words, not much of a distinction there to justify separating such SF into its own sub-sub-genre.
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Joined: 11/22/2011
Posts: 4
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Well, how I have perceived the difference between the two genres is in much more simplistic terms. Victorian deals with what did occur and what was possible in that time with the current technology.
Steampunk takes it further and shows us insane concepts that could occur with that technology if only applied in the correct way.
From my steampunk novel Sky Rails an organization constructs a working computer using only steam technology and sound waves. They use steam boilers to blow air through what amounts to an enormous pipe organ, which the sound's interactions can store and perceive data, and how the sound waves interact with each other can display data on a specially made screen with movable tiles. (woops, this is not meant to be a description on my book, went overboard there)
Anyway in my mind something like that is far more steampunk because it applies the technology in ways that the original Victorians could not imagine.
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 412
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I think of steampunk as Victorian Science Fiction Nostalgia.
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Joined: 1/18/2012
Posts: 1
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Well the question is, are there goggles? Because goggles are steampunk.
Seriously though I think you're right (though I'm far from studied in the genre, admittedly, beyond Diff Eng).
The trappings are not the genre. I think you summed it up great with Steampunk being our alternate history vs. Verne and the like being their alternate future.
The word "punk" is in there for a reason, after all.
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Joined: 2/9/2012
Posts: 427
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@J Boone,
I’m very stimulated by your ideas about steampunk, and especially by your thesis that it is, “at its very core, a re-imagining of the past.” I’m particularly excited because I’ve been working on a related project of my own regarding female heroines in multicultural post-collapse (soft sci-fi) fiction that perceives a degree of reconstruction and “re-imagining” as well. I think you are definitely onto something here!
I have a few comments & questions that I truly hope are helpful to you as you expand this project for your portfolio. As others have noted, I think the appellation “Victorian” is a bit slippery: Victorian is all the literature penned during the rule of Queen Victoria, and Jane Eyre is as Victorian as The Time Machine. To be more precise, The Time Machine, published in 1895, belongs to the fin de siècle, or end of century, period often characterized by themes such as budding feminism (the “New Woman” phenomenon), imperialism, decadence, and a pessimistic belief that human nature as well as civilization are on a path of devolution and degeneration. Hence, the florescence of science fiction at the end of the century! So, perhaps, when you make your argument, you could make the distinction and refer to works by Wells and Stevenson (Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde) as Late Victorian science fiction.
Another reason you should be careful with the term Victorian is that you run into a factual hurdle when it comes to Verne, as he is French and there is no such period in French literature. I don’t know as much about French 19C, but depending on your findings/research, you might feel more comfortable using a more all-encompassing term such as late 19C science fiction (to incorporate American, British, and French writers). I think Poe comes earlier and is more commonly associated with the American Romantic movement. Both American and British Victorianism date 1837-1901.
The only reason I am being a stickler about proper terms and genre categorization is the fact that you are thinking of developing this into an article (which I think you should totally do!). You might end up deciding that digging into the 19C stuff is not that productive for your project. But if you end up focusing part of your essay on some of these 19C authors, then make sure to not conflate the periods/nationalities (for the sake of *publishing/conference presentation precision*!).
Now some questions: What does “re-imagining of the past” mean for your article exactly? Will you be arguing that steampunk re-imagines the period in terms of science and technology or ALSO social mores and attitudes (e.g. re-imagining social, gender, or racial relations in the 19C)? I’m really curious since I don’t know as much about steampunk as you do. Moreover, what are the over-arching implications of your project? One of them is to encourage us to make “the difference between the inspirations behind the genre and the origins of the genre.” How will it ultimately change our vision of steampunk as well as our reading and writing practices?
Good luck with your endeavor! Nevena
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Joined: 5/7/2011
Posts: 42
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Nevena,
Thanks for the thoughts.
You are very right about the use of the term "Victorian." I should use "Late Victorian" -- mostly for British -- along with the Gilded Age for America or La Belle Epoque, which is the French equivalent. All of them are from about 1870 to the beginning of WWI (which thus includes Edwardian in the British sphere). I think overall "Late Victorian" is probably a good term that most people would relate to. You are right, too, because Dickens even falls into that, though he was long gone by the time the majority of Scientific Romances came around or were popularized. So Late Victorian it is 
To answer your first question: "re-imaging of the past" means taking the potential of the past -- we'll use "The Difference Engine" as our example -- and hypothesizing that that potential became reality. Thus we have a past that did not happen but was close to doing so had other events happened at the right time. This re-imaging then postulates what might have happened had that particular bit of technology become commonplace or even feasible. There is also, of course, the secret history plot-line, though, which assumes that events were happening under the surface of the every day world that no one ever found out about. The "what if?" becomes a little more "what if this had been happening right under peoples' noses?" rather than "what if this had been a huge event that changed the world?" Both of them, in my mind, still re-imagine the past; they just do it in different ways.
As to your second question, I would happy to see more stories that *do* call those things into question. I think many stories from the more Classic Steampunk era sort of take those sorts of things as mere back drop. Though, to be fair, "The Difference Engine" does touch upon the role of Ada Lovelace in the world, which is certainly a bit of an homage. But I think overall feminism, social progressiveness, and other conscientious movements of the time are not nearly touched-upon as much I would like to see. I think my argument would be that there is a great deal of opportunity to return to that more classical style of writing -- Late Victorian writing -- that delved into social constructs and probed the ramifications of technology on society in a way that contemporary science fiction does as well, only to call into question the social backwardness of the era (which is not too far from the way in which many places in the world are still backward today when it comes to equality of race, gender, and class).
I think my hope with an article like this (which is still long in the works) would be to make steampunk writers as conscious of their writing as DIY steampunk makers are of their carbon footprint. We have a unique opportunity to revel in the decadence of the Late Victorian aesthetic while calling into question the ever-present social topics and issues that plague us today using the backdrop of a world where such things were repressed.
Thanks for the question and thoughts. It's nice to delve into the topic and explore my own thoughts. Feel free to message me with more if you'd like a more personal conversation. My email address is wifantasywriter@gmail.com.
Cheers,
J Boone Dryden
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 412
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Whew! awesome read there you two.
I think another big difference that falls in with the idea of re-imagining the past is that European Decadence era (I think that is just a nifty name for the time frame and concepts we are discussing) Science Fiction built technology based on what the authors of the time saw as being likely progressions. In many cases, their ideas of devices and gadgets were scarily correct, but in just as many cases they failed to predict HOW society was going to use the gadgets, or certain very key concepts.
In steampunk, we seem to often take the same likely progressions, from their viewpoint (therefore things being run by vacuum tubes, dynamos, steam and gears, ) BUT, we use them to recreate modern technology that was created through a different means of technology and different societal impetuous.
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Joined: 2/9/2012
Posts: 427
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J,
This is all really interesting stuff, and I see that these ideas have been brewing for a while. Also, I would definitely be interested in reading the kind of steampunk that you are envisioning -- more engaged in revising cultural paradigms. I’ll be sure to read up on your book soon.
Also, I was thinking you might be interested in checking out a book called n.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1920&bih=993&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=10226456075826451433&sa=X&ei=PlM7T_f7JpGs0AHozIirCw&ved=0CEcQ8gIwAA#ps-sellers'>http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=the+fin+de+siecle+a+reader+in+cultural+history&hl=en&prmd=imvns&resnum=3&bav n.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1920&bih=993&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=10226456075826451433&sa=X&ei=PlM7T_f7JpGs0AHozIirCw&ved=0CEcQ8gIwAA#ps-sellers</a>;">The Fin de Siecle: A Reader in Cultural History c. 1880-1900 to familiarize yourself further with Late Victorian lite themes/tropes (as opposed to Victorian ideals such as community and a belief in progress): degeneration, outcast London, the New Woman, scientific naturalism, anthropology and racial science, etc. The decadence stuff that Alexander references is also part of the picture. Every chapter has a few excerpts from non-fiction writings from these end-of-century, transitional years. I’m suggesting this not must as research for your article, but it occurred to me you might find it as really interesting fodder for your own fiction writing.
Let’s keep this conversation going!
Cheers,
Nevena
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Joined: 5/1/2011
Posts: 1
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What I would like to know is what do we call the genre that doesn't fit into this mold? There are many stories written that display futuristic uses for clockwork, but are they still considered steam punk? why not clock punk? Many other scifi invention do not revolve around steam, or even the Victorian era. What about advanced weaponry during the edwardian period? Do we determine these classifications separately? If so, my WIP would be called a non-european pirate adventure with steam/clockwork/weaponry punk. What else could I call it?
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Joined: 5/7/2011
Posts: 42
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Alexander:
You make a fair point. The period of Scientific Romance (the Decadence Era as you rightly call it) was one of contemplation of the future in a somewhat optimistic fashion. I think there are a lot of issues that most writers shied away from as the religious repression became stronger in the backlash of the Darwin revolution. The distinction you make of "forward vision" vs. "reexamining the past" is precisely the one I am trying to make. Our own vision of the Late Victorian period is tainted by our knowledge of its outcome.
Nevena:
I will have to see about finding that book at the library. It's $45 (at its cheapest) online. I am interested in many of the notions listed in the description of the book. I think classism, feminism, over-extension of tech I. Society , and the fallout of imperialism.
Overall, Steampunk has a great deal of appeal to me because there is a lot of room for social comment to be made about our own way of life and the norms and mores that -- while outwardly different -- have not changed much over the last century. I think too many authors are drawn in by the pretty aspects of it (the purely aesthetic portion that can essentially be draped over any genre or style), and others are merely pedantic in their message. A balance needs to be struck that delivers a message but is still entertaining.
Phyllis:
There is clockpunk (though I prefer the term clockwork stories because the "punk" moniker is thoroughly overused). Edwardian generally tends to fall into Dieselpunk, but that's not entirely unilateral. Steampunk sort of covers steam-powered technology, as well as electric, which I must admit is a sorely under-used technology in the worlds I see because it was really quite widely-used in most cities, only on a small scale (i.e., most people had their own private source of energy generation if they were wealthy enough -- that's how many factories worked, being that they were on rivers, and could generate power with a water mill).
I think the term that best describes all these works -- and one I've come to use often -- is Retrofuturist. Check out retrofutureengine.blogspot.com/about, where I talk a little about it. I'll be discussing it more in the future.
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Joined: 2/27/2011
Posts: 353
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I love this discussion so much, but I secretly feel like I'm not smart enough to actually participate in it. Ooops, did I say that out loud?????
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 412
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Colleen, there is no such thing as smart enough in an opinion conversation, merely educated enough. how much victorian sci fi and steampunk have you read?
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Joined: 5/7/2011
Posts: 42
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Colleen: Not true. I think everyone's opinion is valuable in a discussion, especially on a site like this, because readers are always out there. And these thoughts are not to say that I'm entirely right: they're just the ideology that I have formulated over my years of understanding the genre.
Something I have been delving into recently with some of my own writing, as well as some published works, is that of magic and the occult. Much of Victorian culture was fascinated by and enamored with the occult, especially that of Egyptian and Middle Eastern mythology (indeed many of our current translations of those works come from work done in this time-period). However, I feel like too often contemporary writers seem to be over-looking this and going straight to magic and the science-fantasy version of steampunk called gaslight fantasy.
Unfortunately, I feel like a lot of this work is very vague in its inspection of science, technology, or anything that much of what this discussion has brought up. I'm curious if anyone has encountered other works that might be a bit more gaslight fantasy that are more in line with some of our subjects like feminism, classism, etc.
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Joined: 3/12/2011
Posts: 376
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@J - Fascinating differentiation. I've heard 'Victorian Science Fiction' used as a three word description for Steam Punk. I've used it myself when pressed for time, and the 'like Jules Verne' comment is often made. I think at this point in time the 'Victorian Science Fiction' definition qualifies as what Pratchett might call a 'lie to the uninitiated'. It's not *true*, but it brings them closer enough to the truth that someone can begin explaining why it's not true.
I completely concede your point, though. The Victorians weren't writing alternate history, they were futurists. Steam Punk writers are writing a specific subgenre of alternate history. Speaking of subgenres, I write something between DieselPunk (Edwardian Era) and Gaslight Fantasy (I'm not explaining or focusing on the the technology, for the most part, and sufficiently advanced technology, even made of gears, is...)
Speaking of Gaslight Fantasy, one of the things I point people who don't read much but are really asking the 'what is SteamPunk' question to is Girl Genius by the Foglios. IIRC, Kaja coined the term Gaslight Fantasy talking about GG. There are definitely some issues of class and gender addressed in GG.
One thing I've seen done, and I've tried to emulate, is Victorians and Edwardians who would take 'Mystical Power' as a valid explanation for something incredible *almost* as quickly as they would take 'Science'. When reading Verne or Wells or Doyle (or even Shelley?) I get a sense that they subconsciously thought of science as the 'new occult', with engineers as the 'new wizards'.
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 412
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I get a sense that they subconsciously thought of science as the 'new occult', with engineers as the 'new wizards'.
Very much! You can get that sense in other novels as well, moby dick, the way the canadian treats technology, for example.
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