|
|
Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662
|
Hello all. I discovered recently that I like it when I receive feedback on work I've recently posted while I finish up doing revisions on the draft I'm working on. I discovered it lets me know if I've already said something and need to delete a later conversation that covers the same and I can use that space to clarify it, or bring something else up entirely. It also lets me know if my newly adjusted characterization, world building, etc. is going in the right direction.
So, my question is, does anyone else like early feedback when revising a finished manuscript? Or do you prefer to finish the revisions and then get feedback? Sound off below, and don't be afraid to explain yourselves.
I'm also including a link to my WIP Hands of Ash for those interested. If you aren't, feel free not to worry about it. This isn't about trying to get readers, but I've already got a review on this current draft that's been helping me out a lot if you want to look at it. It really is keeping me from repeating myself. Also, feel free to post your own links for giggles.
http://www.bookcountry.com/BookDetail.aspx?BookId=1446
|
|
|
|
I personally like early feedback, if for no other reason than as a way of making sure I'm on the right track and understanding the feedback I've gotten.
|
|
Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662
|
That is exactly why I like it. I like knowing if I'm doing the right work.
|
|
Joined: 9/26/2013
Posts: 8
|
I'm new to BC so just learning a little about the feedback process. My first experience reviewing was challenging, though.
I personally would rather have my work ripped to pieces with honest criticism (which I experienced a few years back with a pro editor, and I'll always be grateful for the fact!) Sadly, some of the work I've reviewed here was tough to read. I don't want to discourage a budding author from writing, but some of what I've seen was so bad I couldn't think of anything positive to say and I just shut it down.
I'd like to hear back from other writers. If you have a truly atrocious manuscript, would you want to know all the details of why it's bad, or would you rather someone like me just leave it be?
|
|
|
|
Granted that different people have different tastes, personally, I'd want to know. Better to find out now than (a) end up sending something out that doesn't have a chance in hell of getting published, or (b) writing something godawful that still manages to get published (it happens) and becoming a laughingstock.
|
|
Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662
|
leilani wrote:I'm new to BC so just learning a little about the feedback process. My first experience reviewing was challenging, though.
I personally would rather have my work ripped to pieces with honest criticism (which I experienced a few years back with a pro editor, and I'll always be grateful for the fact!) Sadly, some of the work I've reviewed here was tough to read. I don't want to discourage a budding author from writing, but some of what I've seen was so bad I couldn't think of anything positive to say and I just shut it down.
I'd like to hear back from other writers. If you have a truly atrocious manuscript, would you want to know all the details of why it's bad, or would you rather someone like me just leave it be?
I've read some pretty bad work on here too, but I've found ways of breaking the news without being overly insulting to them. I usually give "general tips" and then see where they go from there. General tips are overall issues that they need to fix before I can focus on the little things. They usually include punctuation usage, especially in dialogue; point of view; setting; plot; overall characterization; etc. My comments usually look like, "Your characters all sound the same," and then I follow up with suggestions on how to remedy that. Don't forget to tell them what they did do right if you find something that is. Is the plot good? Tell them so. You can still criticize without being mean about it. If they get angry, oh well. You tried. That is all that matters. --edited by LeeAnna Holt on 11/19/2013, 12:19 PM--
|
|
Joined: 1/22/2013
Posts: 17
|
I want honest feedback presented considerately. I've seen too many people dance around someone's poor execution of the craft. It doesn't help the writer if he or she doesn't see the flaws. I think it's all in the way one gives constructive criticism. I'm always objective and never refer to the writer as anything else but "writer".I always assume the writer wrote earnestly, honestly, as best they can. So if s/he does that s/he deserves respect.
|
|
|
|
LeeAnna; Early feedback could derail the possibility of an epihany that might change the whole complexion of your manuscript. Also, if you have a completed novel posted, the feedback, rendered by someone too disinterested to read the complete work, might concern only the first few chapters and therefore deprive you of an honest assessment of the entirety. And because all opinions are mostly subjective, you have to be very selective as to what is beneficial to your writing. I strive mightily in my reviews to be objective so that I don't become an intrusive ghost writer. All feedback, therefor, must be taken with a grain of salt. In the writing business the author is the court of last resort.
|
|
|
|
LeeAnna; When passing judgement on a manuscript it is important to know at what stage it is being called atrocious. The first draft of any novel could be labeled thus. Everything we write, even that which is pronounced finished, remains a work in progress. As with a fine wine, the "finished" manuscript, for better or worse, continues to age in the bottle of time. Haven't we all read books beloved in our youth that sound stilted and dumb when re-read through the prism of maturity? The earth-shaking Harry Potter books have been undergoing revaluations that no longer leave them firmly planted on their pedestals. I couldn't, years later, finish re-reading Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance; the second time around it appeared preachy and repetitive. A subsequent re-reading of Stranger in a Strange Land left me wondering what is was all about What remains of the once explosive Beat Generation? In my opinion. a paltry three contributions: On the Road, The Dharma Bums-- both by Jack Kerouac- and Howl by Allen Ginsberg. Virtually the entire oeuvre of that drug-fueled literary movement is gone with the Zeitgeist it exalted. On the Road remains a transcendent classic because it captured that deep-rooted sense of American restlessness revealed in Huckleberry Finn, The Grapes of Wrath and William Least Heat Moon's Blue Highways.
Many of the great novels we revere had humble beginnings. A hundred years after his death, Herman Melville's writing room was being refurbished. Found behind the massive desk were a dozen balled-up sheets of manuscript paper. Smoothed out, they each bore a single opening line: Call me Izzy, Call me Willard, Call me Bob...
|
|
Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662
|
I get the "opinions are subjective" bit. I'm preaching it myself to poor, stressed writers who don't know what to do with their feed back. But even then, I've noticed people have a tendency to point out things I really have missed. I know when what is suggested is relevant, especially if it has been repeated multiple times by beta readers.
What I mean by "early feedback," is that when I'm revising, and I've already posted some of those revisions, I like to know if I'm doing a good job, or totally screwing everything up. I have a tendency to over work my writing, so telling me is good. Really good. I've made vast improvements already because of things people pointed out.
I just re-read the Harry Potter books, and while there are some things I would have made her change, they're still really well written. I'm really, really critical (I think I have a problem turning off) and I was still pretty impressed. Especially her later books after she'd grown more as a writer. Most of my issues have to do with her world building, but not big issues. I just wonder why they don't use fountain pens or typewriters if electricity goes all wonky around loads of magic. Even a ball point pen and a spiral bound. Anyway, I like Butcher's reason why wizard's wear robes better; because sub-basements are cold and damp. --edited by LeeAnna Holt on 1/5/2014, 3:51 PM--
|
|
|
|
I always prefer early feedback. In fact, I'll sometimes try to get some before I start revisions so I can get an idea of what I may need to focus on.
|
|
Joined: 9/8/2013
Posts: 9
|
I think its important to remember the context for criticism on a site like this. A published critic is writing for an audience of readers. Her responsibility is to inform readers about a book, to let them know whether its worthwhile, to stimulate a discussion about it, to entertain readers with their wit and insight--I'm sure there are more. The purpose is not, however, to help and encourage a writer early in their careers. We are not writing critiques for public consumption, we are writing to help a writer develop his craft, and improve his work. I think the rules are different for us.
As a coach and trainer in psychiatric rehabilitation, I learned from a professor and mentor that feedback has to be given judiciously in order for it to be useful (meaning it might result in improved performance). Studies have shown that negative feedback is far more impactful, and is retained longer, than positive feedback. In order to be balanced in effect then, feedback has to be skewed in practice. She suggested a rule of three positive messages for every one critical message. It's hard to imagine a published critic adhering to that principle, and its a challenge in practice in any context.
My personal policy on Book Country is to review only works that I like, and that I can say positive things about. Then when I pick on aspects that need improvement, its in a generally supportive context. If the manuscript doesn't do anything for me--certainly if it bothered me sufficiently to label it atrocious--I pass on it and find another. There are lots of manuscripts on the site.
With that, I know that some of my critical comments may stem from the fact that I don't get what the writer is trying to do. Perhaps they are employing a technique I'm not familiar with. I've certainly had that happen for my own work, but it's pretty easy then to set those criticisms aside. I think if we keep in mind the goal of supporting another writer, whose work we admire and enjoy, at least in some of its elements, then we can't go far wrong. It shouldn't be about the critic, and how smart or seasoned they are. It's all about the writer.
|
|
Joined: 1/23/2014
Posts: 44
|
Personally, I like to get early feedback. That maybe because I'm just taking my first baby steps into this world where I've always been to afraid to tread. I know my grammar and punctuation will be bloody awfall, but at the first draft stage, I'd like to get feedback on the concept. The idea and if its a story other people think is worth telling.
I'm sure I'll get shot down in flames for this but, for me if an idea and concept is strong, the mechanics in which the story is being told can be fixed. However if the idea and concept is crappy even the best writer in the world will write an excellently written crappy story.
While im at it, id really like to get some feedback on this one. http://www.bookcountry.com/BookDetail.aspx?BookId=6207
I read it one day and think ok.. its strong.. the next day I doubt myself... would like some outside feedback (friends and family are all supportive, but do they count?)
Cheers
AL
|
|
|
|