Reporting a bug (not sure if this is the appropriate place), but none of the sort features in the discussion lists seem to work. I tried sorting by date posted, number of replies, number of views, etc., and none of the sorts made any sense.

I was looking for a post made by a particular person. On the main lists of the discussion groups, the person's name appeared there as the most recent person to post to a discussion within a particular cluster of discussions. But when I opened up that particular list of discussions, you no longer see who made the last post (just the person who created the thread, the number of times the thread was viewed, the number of replies, and the date of the most recent post). I figured since the post was very recent, I could sort the list by date - no logic to the sort at all. Why do we need to see number of views? Would be better to see the name of the most recent person to post to any given discussion on the actual list of discussions as opposed to on the list of clusters of discussions.

Has some hacker sabotaged this formerly wonderful site?
 - Michael R Hagan

LOL Michael & yes: They turned it into just another WordPress website.

I once called BookCountry the Montmartre for writers. But someone has torn down our intimate, charming café and replaced it with a McDonalds.

--edited by GD Deckard on 7/1/2013, 10:14 AM--

Hi Angela and Mimi,

I tested the sort feature in discussions and it's working for me. 

You should be able to sort the forums by topics, topic starter, replies, views and last post. Navigate to the discussion forum you wish to view and click on the column header you’d like to sort by. Sticky topics and announcements (identified by BC staff) will always remain on top. 

If you think that the sort feature is not working for you as it should, can you shoot me a note to support at bookcountry dot com with a screenshot of what you're seeing and your browser version? 

There is a separate thread for bugs: http://www.bookcountry.com/Community/Discussion/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=8589935661. In the future, it would be great it you could post about bugs there so we could keep site suggestions and bugs separate. Thanks, guys.

Nevena

--edited by Nevena Georgieva on 7/1/2013, 3:27 PM--

Hi, Nevena - Ahhh. The sticky topics. I get it. And, yes, now all the sorting is working (still would be nice if the last person who posted is displayed next to each individual topic, though). All the date and time stamps are a bit dizzying to scroll through - and rather small (especially on a laptop screen - can't imagine what it would look like on a smaller device). In general, I find the discussion directory and the pages of the individual discussions themselves a bit visually busy.

And thanks for the bug discussion link (it may have been one of the topics I was following before, but who the heck remembers). . .

-Angela

GD, it breaks my heart that you say that, but I'm glad you're saying it because I know it's coming from a good place, and that you love this site as much as I do.

So keep it coming. We want to know about why you feel this way about the new design, and please be as specific as you can be (e.g., the font, the navigation, the buttons, the profile pictures, etc.). 

Your feedback and the feedback of all of you here will help us prioritize our roadmap with our developers. There are so many things we want to do, and hearing from you helps us understand what we need to do first. 

So THANK YOU.

--edited by Nevena Georgieva on 7/1/2013, 7:07 PM--

I'll offer some specifics. For starters, the font is too small on a smaller laptop screen. I'm using my personal laptop now (17-inch screen) and I can see things a bit better than I did with my work laptop. I could never, however, use this site on my netbook. Plus, on my smaller screen, the floating nib on the list of discussions actually overlaps the list (it doesn't on my wider screen home laptop). Was the site redesigned with wide-screen format in mind? If so, you need to consider that not everyone is working with laptops or monitors with that particular aspect ratio.

The little icons (like the envelop for subscribing to a discussion) are also too small and, quite frankly, easy to miss. What's wrong with  "Follow this discussion"? or "Subscribe to this discussion"? (I prefer "follow" with an easily accessible list of discussions that I am following as opposed to "subscribe" and dealing with a bunch of e-mails.)

On the discussion threads themselves, it's very easy to confuse the "date joined" with the "date posted" - especially since the date joined is much larger than the date posted. And without the members' photos/images, the discussion threads are visually boring and remind me of very early web design (in the days before it became relatively easy to incorporate images). To be honest, the look of the discussion threads reminds me of the first "video" game we had when I was a kid: two bars and a circle on a black and white TV.

I've already posted something about the overall lack of sense of community; loss of navigation; the still-too-small size of the boxes for writing reviews; the missing lists of people, discussions, and books I was following; and some other stuff, so I won't repeat it here.

There are some positives, though. For starters, the word-processing tools added to the discussion threads are quite a plus (and I do like being able to add an emoticon - although they seem to be duplicated in the pop-up box and selecting one inserts some funky circle dingbat between paragraphs). It's nice to be able to edit our works in place - though I haven't tried it yet because I'm afraid I would end up with Draft 15,437 (since a mere title change created a new draft!). And I like the idea of being able to upload an entire book or a bunch of chapters at once (hope to be trying that out soon when I finish editing book 2 of my trilogy - almost done!). And the site does seem to load a heck of a lot faster than the last one did.

Overall, I have very mixed feelings about the site. Change can be hard, and sometimes it takes a bit of time before the positives show themselves. Other times, though, change seems to be just for the sake of change, and that's not always a good thing. I suspect that a lot of positive stuff development and programming-wise took place under the hood. But from a user's perspective, I'd like to see the car's exterior reflect those changes.

Nevena? You're telling me to stop whining & say something useful, aren't you? That's more difficult, you know But I'll try.

Fixing this site is easy as 1-2-3.

1. Make the first page after login a different page for each member, a member's home page. Giving each member a page of their own personalizes the website for the members.

2. The member's home page needs to show the books, discussions and people that they are following, This makes their home page unique to their interests.

3. Notify members that they now have a members home page that they can customize to match their interests in books, other members and discussions. This is damage control, so maybe post a notice on the Book Country Home Page and even email all current members?

Members will feel like they are part of the site if they are part of the site. And once they do, they will appreciate 90% of the new site as it is. I think the design, font, navigation, buttons, graphics, etc. are an excellent improvement over the old site. Book Country has always worked with members having minor issues with the site and that will obviously continue. But we do need to give each member a page that they can call their own home in Book Country.

--edited by GD Deckard on 7/3/2013, 7:26 AM--

I would love to have a page dedicated to new topics. Newly created threads, titles prominently displayed in boxes, just like the Featured Discussions of the former format, up for a week or so, during which time you could browse and opt to 'follow' if you were so inclined.

.....

A brief Place in the Sun for every new thread would be delightful. And would make it so easy for us to discover them.

.....

And flesh the page out with a section of Active and Featured Discussions. 

--edited by Mimi Speike on 7/2/2013, 11:43 AM--

Hey Mimi

Adding a brief "Place in the Sun" to the member's personal page for every new thread really would be delightful. That would definitely make it easy for us to discover them.

Great idea!

Hey GD. I'm glad you like it. I've suggested it to The Powers That Be before, and never gotten a peep out of them about the idea. 

...

Have you checked out the Paragraph Pile lately? It's going great. I'll have my hands full keeping up with those other crackpots. Crackpots,  I mean that in the best sense of the word. 

.

--edited by Mimi Speike on 7/3/2013, 2:17 PM--

Dear Book Country-ers,

Thank you so much for your thoughtful and detailed feedback over the past ten days. Your response shows how much you care about this community, and that makes us really happy. 

We wanted to tell you that we have been listening to your comments and suggestions. I have some development news to share: 

Last night our development team started working on the "Follow" features. (Hail the dev lords!)

Because of your feedback, we prioritized "Follow" over other features. Followed books and discussions will appear on a logged-in homepage later this month. The old books and discussions you were following will be back as well! 

Lucy, our brand-new BC Community & Engagement manager (Welcome, Lucy!), wrote a post about the upcoming changes, so be sure to share that with other members who are not part of this discussion. 

Thank you for your help & happy 4th to all of you! 

Nevena

--edited by Nevena Georgieva on 7/3/2013, 7:18 PM--

Happy 4th to you, too, Nevena (and to the dev lords)!

Looking forward to the next release.

Sadly, for as much as I whined and pined wanting new, usable boards, I find myself agreeing with Mr Deckard. And I'm wondering if that's why posting is down -- or is everyone just in the summer writers club hangouts?

Also, I posted this in the bug report thread, but thought I'd post it here, too, since really this is where it belongs:

My eyesight is awful, and trying to read text on the grey backgrounds can be literally painful sometimes. If a background must be used, maybe it could be switched to something that's almost clear, near-off-white, or something? Pale, pale, pale ...  

--edited by MariAdkins on 7/5/2013, 1:54 PM--

Here I am again.

From the very beginning of the Beta-fish, I had been suggesting and hoping for message boards more akin to the Simple Machines fora I've used and managed for years now. I never meant something as drastic and stark as what they have at the Absolute Write Water Cooler. But I did always hope for something similar. I'm curious as to what software we're actually using here, even if it's something some team built from scratch.

 

Things such as these must to be user-friendly. Legible. Simple. Otherwise people are going to start leaving. To me, it feels like a lot of people already have, and that's a shame.

 

Having a quoting function for threads is really nice, and helps in many ways, but the way it formats isn't ideal; not really.
  

The grey on white for reading the boards is pretty, but for someone like me with low vision, as I said before it can be a literal pain. I don't, won't, and can't go where I'm not able to read. And after taking the time to read this entire thread, my eyes are, simply, tired.

 

And I agree with Angela, I think it was, who said the little flying "scroll to the top" icon just isn't working. I tend to vacate post haste websites that employ those flying scroll banners. They do nothing but get in the way of actual page content.

 

One thing the board should do, absolutely, is return to either the bottom of the thread the poster is responding to or to the post the poster responded to. On other boards, members can select between settings as they choose. On the old BC, it returned us to the bottom of the thread, to our own last post. This was good - we knew our post had actually posted. It's a comfort thing - and not just for me.

 

There are other things, but they've all been mentioned by myself and others throughout this thread, so I'm not going to rehash.

 

Also, it seems I'm logged in for this session. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

--edited by MariAdkins on 7/5/2013, 1:52 PM--

This is getting to be too much. I was on here not ten minutes ago, and I just had to log in again. 

.

I think Book Country owes us an explanation of why they chose to trash the very features, the ease of navigation and of connection, that made this site so delightful. It was easy to get to where you wanted to go, and easy to get to know people, and to build relationships. On other sites (except for Bookkus) I have felt lost in the crowd.  I've tried several of them, and dropped them for that reason.

,

--edited by Mimi Speike on 7/5/2013, 10:07 PM--

Has anyone else tried to upload a new draft of their work yet? (And if the "turn to a dark gray background" doesn't go away soon, I'm going to stop posting things on this site! Seriously, as soon as I start typing, the background turns dark gray. The only way I can turn it back to white is to move the cursor to a place I already typed in and click. Grrrrrrrrrr.)

Anyway, getting back to uploading a new draft - the system inserted an extra line of white space after (or before, depending on how you look at it) every hard return I made in the document. Before I drive myself crazy and try to delete all 17 gazillion extra lines, is this normal behavior? Is there a way to wholesale remove them without deleting them one at a time? Also, there doesn't seem to be a way to cancel your action. I wanted to cancel my new draft because all the extra white space annoyed me. The buttons on the bottom of the editing window are "Save", "Post" and "Publish." Since no text appeared when I hovered over each of these, I assumed Save meant to save my current work but don't make it available to other people yet; Post meant to save and put it out there for the world to read and review, and Publish would have taken me to the self-publishing portion of this site. All assumptions, however. Since there was no "cancel" option, I just hit the back button of my browser and hoped for the best.

And if I may make another suggestion, it would be really helpful if the detailed directions on how to upload your work were available on the same screen. Yes, I know there is a detailed Q&A under the "Learn" tab, but having a quick link to the instructions (maybe one that opens up another tab or pop-up window - so you don't lose what you were doing during the upload process) or some strategically placed tips on the uploading page would be nice.

Also, with respect to posting on a thread, when you click post, you're automatically taken back to the very first post. I think it would be better if you stay on the page with your (the latest) post. It also would be nice if the window that opens up for the post was positioned under the last post. This would make more sense, especially if you are responding directly to what is in the last post, than scrolling all the way down to the bottom to refer to the last post, then scrolling all the way back up to what you're writing.

-Angela

I just noticed that little red whatever-it-is (blunted crow-quill pen point?) in the upper left corner with the up arrow. Can you add a down arrow to it?

.

Angela, I have taken to inserting a period between paragraphs, to hold the space.  Annoying to have to do, but it works.

.

--edited by Mimi Speike on 7/5/2013, 10:15 PM--

Oh, Mimi - adding an extra period between each paragraph is crazy! I work in a content management system all day long. It has its quirks, but if I want an extra space between sections, I just hit the enter key. Just like any other word processing software. The discussion thread text box should behave the same way. I'm going to try hitting the enter key three times and see what happens.

And another annoyance: I got the e-mail notification that Mimi posted to this thread. I clicked on the link in the e-mail and was taken to page one of the thread. Clicked on page 2 to see the post. Noticed that there was no reply button. Ahhh, because I wasn't logged in (in the old version of BC, I had it set so that I was kept logged in all the time. I miss that.). So, I logged in. Instead of keeping me on the thread I was on, I had to select "Discuss" under Connect, scroll through all the threads again to find this one, and go back to latest post.

Talk about a waste of time. . .

So how come when I get an e-mail alert about a private message it doesn't contain the text of the message (just a link that requires me to login before I can see the message), yet the e-mail alerts about the various discussions I'm following - that is, subscribe to - contain the full text of the post (even the really, really, really long ones)?

Just asking. . .

P.S. Please put a Post and Cancel button above the text screen, too. Anything to minimize scrolling is a good thing.

I have never participated in a trial software before, so I don't know if all these stumbles are par for the course. I suspect that they are. But why were all the really splendid features wiped out so cavalierly? How could it be that the management was so unaware of what was special about this site? This is what really puzzles me. 

.

I'm hanging on, but I may have lost at least one of my favorite people for good. Michael Hagan, I can find him on Bookkus. GD, Atthys, they are on Bookkus also, although lately they have made themselves scarce. Alantis, he may be gone with the wind, and that is a real pity. I enjoy his voice and his energy tremendously.

You're finding me, Mari, because I'm being very vocal about all the problems I'm encountering with the redesigned site. 

Here's another reason to please hurry and bring back a means of keeping track of all the discussions I was following before (which I knew the developers are working on): the constant e-mails are bad enough, but when I happen to be in my e-mail and see one from Book Country and skim through it, I'm not necessarily in a situation where I can take the time to post a reply. So, what do I do? Stockpile all the e-mails and open them one by one at some later time to see which discussion threads I might want to post to? Or delete them to get them out of my inbox and completely forget which discussions I had gotten an e-mail alert for? To be honest, other than this particular thread, I've been deleting all the e-mails and I haven't been scrolling through all the threads trying to find the ones I had been following or trying to decide which new ones I want to participate in. And because the individual discussion threads don't list who the last person to post was, I can no longer see what the folks I was following are up to. Which was the way I usually found discussions to participate in.

With the previous incarnation of this site, each of my followed discussions appeared on my home page with an easy to see indicator that there had been activity: a number posted on the block with the name of the discussion. I could take my time visiting each of the discussions to read the new posts and maybe add a post or save them for my next visit knowing that I'll be able to easily see which discussions had activity. 

The longer I play around with this site, the less I like it. I thought that the more I poked around, the more it would grow on me and the more I'd figure out how to get back into the swing of things here. But that's just not happening. I was going to try to post new drafts of my two books, but I don't know if I want to torture myself with "testing" that process . . . And how will anyone who may have been following my books know if I post new drafts? Which raises the question: what would be the point?

You're right. We're being tiresome. Sorry, everyone. I'll zip my lip.

.

You know, in all my sixty-six years, I've never been in a clique. I've always been an oddball loner. This is kind of neat.

.

That's odd. Where'd that guy go, accusing us of being a clique? Did I dream it?

,

--edited by Mimi Speike on 7/8/2013, 12:13 PM--

GD Deckard wrote:

The first page after we log in needs to be a summary of the people, books & discussions that we are following.

I agree 1000%. Like this but more legible. You know, like what we used to have!

Yeah, I weakened there for a minute. Last night some new guy really let us loud mouths have it. We're a negative clique, he scolded. He likes this site a lot, a real lot. What's our problem? This morning, his post is gone. Strange.

.

Us bitch-and-moaners are not the folks that Book Country has to worry about. Speaking for myself, I'm hooked on this site, and it's going to take a lot to kick me out. It's all the absent voices that I wonder about. I messaged one friend, where are you? He replied, I'm too busy at work, and I can't find anything anymore. 

.

GD, Atthys, Carl, scads of others, the more-fun-than-a-barrel-of-monkeys gang that I have come to love, maybe they are laying low, watching and waiting. Let's hope so.

.

--edited by Mimi Speike on 7/8/2013, 12:53 PM--

In some of the reviews that I've given so far, I try to provide feedback to people that haven't received any feedback on their book yet.  I can understand and appreciate the anticipation that a new writer gets when they first put their work up on Book Country. It's like waiting for your teacher to give you a grade on an essay that you worked long and hard on.

 So . . . my question is whether the links that state "Be the first person to review this version" in the listing of novels is enough.  Should there also be a different link that says something like "Be the first person to review this book"?  A way to differentiate one from the other?

While I can appreciate that an author would like feedback on a new version of their book after revisions, I would think that there might be a way to emphasize or promote giving reviews to brand new books.  That might broaden the group of people that traffic the site, because I can imagine the frustration of someone who posts their work and waits weeks for a review.

Just a thought.

David, I have always chosen to review on the basis of the author's voice in the discussions. Is the speaker articulate, that's what it comes down to. I don't choose by genre. It's not plot that sways me. I look for exceptional style, and wit, and intelligence. I haven't done a ton of reviews, I'd have to check, it can't be more than a dozen or so, but I am also reviewing on another site, and my reviews are thorough and take a lot of time. 

.

The people here are marvelous. This is the best hang-out site that you will find. It's truly seductive, as you will see when we lure everyone back from wherever the hell they've disappeared to. And I believe the new publishing tools are a big plus also. I'm not close enough to a finish to jump on that, but I will be, at some point. 

.

Was it you who said, some books seem to be in limbo, there have been no new versions posted for years? I am one of those laggards. My book has major problems that I am avoiding like the devil, the holy water, as my German husband says. I am not seeking new reviews, I am digesting the torrent of criticism that I have already received and trying to envision a version that answers some of the complaints but still pleases me. Personally, I think absolutely nothing of an ancient book post. Old, abandoned, whatever, I still learn from every review, and I take to heart the lessons learned and try to improve my own work with them.

.

I hope that you begin to understand why I do not find the improved genre map to be particularly useful, and why the loss of formerly easy-as-it-gets connectivity to the members drives me wild. Maybe BC is trying to discourage hanging out. Maybe they're trying to nudge this enterprise in the direction of concentrating on paying customers. I can't blame them. But I'm not ready to self-publish, so I'll be moving on. There must be many alternatives out there that I haven't discovered. I never made the effort, I was so happy here.

.

--edited by Mimi Speike on 7/8/2013, 6:02 PM--

Hmm . . . that's food for thought.  I did not consider that others might choose to review something based on voice, wit, or intelligence in discussions.  If so, then I may be doomed.  Ha.  I also assumed that most people would stick to their own genre.

I only thought that encouraging reviews of new members would lead to more of them to sticking around.  Grow the base, if you will.  Maybe I'm wrong.  I'm new to this site, so take anything I say with a grain of salt.

Cheers.

Thanks for thinking about this, David. We went back and forth a lot on the right language for that. One of the joys of being in beta is that we can test it and see if people want to read new versions, if they want to read new books, or if members like something we haven't tried yet.

Like Mimi says below, there are a lot of different ways to find new books. It's our goal that every book receives feedback, and ideally, quickly. We don't want members to feel frustrated or to feel alone in the community. (It's one of the reasons we created the Books page so people can find books by a few different methods, including ones that don't have any reviews yet.)

Thanks again for your thoughts. We're paying close attention.

 -Brandi.

Hi, Mari.

Right now, PM is for one person at a time. We're thinking about expanding that in the future.

Best,

Brandi

MariAdkins wrote:

Can we not PM more than one person at a time? 

We are working to foster connection and as you nicely put it, hanging out. We're making updates, prioritizing the feedback we've heard here over bigger features. Even as we improve during our beta ride, we're seeing a lot more activity on the site than we saw just a few weeks ago. New friends and old are uploading books and covers, leaving feedback, starting discussions, and, like you, digging into their manuscripts and revising. To be clear about our motives, Book Country cares about what we've always cared about: creating a supportive, welcoming community for writers.

I wanted to tell you, too, that I really admire your approach to the feedback you've gotten on the site -- it's exactly what we hope to do for writers. My heart sings when I read this: "Old, abandoned, whatever, I still learn from every review, and I take to heart the lessons learned and try to improve my own work with them." Thank you for inspiring me today.

-Brandi

David,

.

My strategy for getting reviewed was (and is) to yak it up, fairly flamboyantly. I even wrote a song, by way of introducing myself, Be A Pain, sung to the tune of Be A Clown. I never had the nerve to post it. I was working my way toward a What-the-hell, make-a-total-fool-of-yourself, stand-out-from-the-crowd-with-a-vengeance attitude when the reviews started coming at me, and I shelved it.

.

I got myself noticed, you bet I did. I figure I had a whole lot of folks thinking, Who is this screwball? Let's see what she writes.

.

I finally posted a few chapters. I had five or six hefty reviews within two weeks. Come to think of it, I don't recommend that approach. For a good month, I was frantic trying to process and respond to the comments. I'm still trying to get my arms around what have to be some of the best awful reviews anyone's ever gotten. I would come to terms with the slams in one review and - bam! - another would knock me on my ass all over again. It was intense.

.

--edited by Mimi Speike on 7/9/2013, 12:37 PM--