I have half an idea Help!

We could set up an ecommerce website to help sell our books. I co-own a website company so the website is covered. Manuscripts can be easily converted to e-files by uploading them on Harper Collin's Authonomy.com and then downloading them as ePub or MOBI (Kindle) files for your own use.

Every Writers co-op member who promotes their book on social media & elsewhere with links to our co-op site also helps to promote every other book on the site. There won't be a lot of books -this ain't Amazon. So it can be set up like a small book store one can browse through to see the works of new writers.

I admit, it's only half an idea.

Maybe this is already being done. Or maybe it won't actually help sell enough books to be worth the effort.

And maybe Book Country would rather we did not discuss it here.

What do you think? I just started the ball rolling by acquiring the domain name, WritersCo-Op.com

--edited by GD Deckard on 2/20/2015, 9:16 AM--

Hi GD!

You know that you can publish your eBook on Book Country, right, and then sell them in our store (as well as Amazon, BN.com, iBooks, and other retailers)?

Here's information about the packages we offer. The "Self-Starter" package is free. We have a video overview of the Book Country self-publishing process here.

Let me know if that is similar to what you were imagining, and if you have any questions!

Lucy

No! Not a self-publishing site, a marketing site!

@ Lucy:

Writers Co-op would not be a publishing site. That's not our area of expertise

But once a book is published, it needs to be marketed. Some writers might consider the Writers Co-op as another marketing tool. And we would happily link to any Book Country pages that would help a book to sell!

@ Allen Curtis Meissner:

Yup, the idea is only half the work. The real work is putting it into practice.

I'm thinking of just a site that new writers can use to promote their books. How, exactly, depends on what the writers themselves want. Writers are creative people, so together we could come up with creative ways to help one another that we might not think of on our own.

How would you like to see a Writers Co-op work?

Hi GD,

.

Any idea about marketing is very worth thinking about. I'll do just that. Marketing is definitely a challenge.

.

Lucy, I got my notebook, and I'm going to use it to record titles of books that I want to buy. I have been jotting on sticky notes, then losing them. The post card that you sent, 'Your Writing Community', I have posted in our break room. You may or may not recall that I work for a compositor. You might think there would be writers working here, and there may well be, in other departments. In my department I know of only two writers. One guy writes poetry. The woman says she writes only for herself, shows her work to no one. Strange.

.

I have little energy right now to think about anything but the few chapters I still lack, which will seamlessly blend new material with the already written ending of my novella. This is a research-intensive episode, dealing with the English and French late sixteenth century theater. I have my bare-bones plot, what I want to happen, but I always like to include the fact-based touches that make the lunacy stand out even more.

--edited by Mimi Speike on 2/20/2015, 6:50 PM--

Huh. GD, that sounds interesting. And rather helpful--I'd use that tool.

Of course, people would have to know the site existed.

It'd have to be user-friendly for people who aren't very familiar with the internet--easy to navigate, etc. And there should be separate pages for different Genres: fantasy and its branches, romance and its, and so on, so people browsing can click on the genre they prefer and scroll through titles. Separate pages for individual books, too, where they can read a blurb about the book, see its cover, and read a bit about the Author--maybe include a chapter of the manuscript to give the potential buyer a feel for the prose used. Links should be included if the author has their own site, along with where the books can be bought, should a publisher be the one selling the book. On the page where books are listed, its book cover should be right next to the title, so as to entice potential buyers.

To sum up, from a writer's perspective, as well as a reader's, I'd like a Writers Co-op where new authors can pitch about their novels, while readers can click specific genres to scroll through, instead of having to muddle through a continuous list. If there could be a way to 'spotlight' brand-new titles in the specific genre pages, that'd be great, so that new book has a chance.

Though I'm in no way an expert on websites. Just wanted to get ideas out there, should this tool come to fruition.

Take or leave what I've written.

Newbie Writer, Amber

--edited by Amber Wolfe on 2/20/2015, 7:35 PM--

Hi,

One of my novels is published at Book Country, but I don't know where. I've seen it with the new cover at Amazon. Also I've come across other sites where authors list their novels, in the hope of selling. I've heard nothing from those sites after listing with them. Most of my works have been selling only from Amazon. I know that some sites list books but always point the buyer to the Amazon site.

Any site that can market our books, though, is welcome. It's always worth at least half a thought, perhaps more.

@Amber Wolfe

Thank you for the very specific input. Those are all excellent ideas and very doable.

@gloria piper

I am with you and Amber on a site that is user friendly. You ought to be able to easily find where your book is listed and readers ought to be able to easily browse for the kind of books they like.

We want a site that writers and reader feel is worth bookmarking and using.

--edited by GD Deckard on 2/21/2015, 11:24 AM--

Thanks, GD. I was afraid I might simply confuse you with my ramblings

On a different note, if this site does come into being, do you plan for it to be a place where any new author can post about their book? If so, do you think there's a way to make certain a book is professionally written--free of typos, grammar errors, etc? We want potential buyers to see new authors work, and maybe buy. But if the site is full of books with errors and less-than-good writing--like some self-published books are--it might make those buyers wary of returning.

A site for new authors to market should showcase well-written manuscripts. Maybe there should be a way to screen new submissions to the site. That way it doesn't become a place for those unskilled in Craft to dump their books, and scare away buyers.

What do you think? Am I being too harsh? From a reader's standpoint, I feel it'd be a good idea to make certain those who wish to utilize the site actually have skill in writing Fiction, because if I was scrolling a site featuring new authors, and a lot of the books I click on have problems, I'd be less likely to return. Or mention the site to other readers.

And as a writer--who hopes to one day be good enough to be published--I'd be wary of showcasing my manuscript alongside books written by authors who didn't take the time to learn how to write decent Fiction.

Arg! Went off there, didn't I? Hope I'm not discouraging you . . .

Anyhow, should this site be available, and managed correctly, I'd definitely utilize it.

Amber

@Amber Wolfe

Thanks, Amber -That is a question that goes to the heart of the Writers Co-op. I'm thinking the writers are the focus, not the website. Calling it a co-op suggests membership and the question of what books to have on the site could be decided by the writer - members.

Yeah, GD. That's a great idea--let the writers (members) decide

A co-op site where the members choose which new authors can market on the site. That way, they'd know whether the newcomer has the skills to write fiction and won't bring the rest of them down. Do you mean to have members review the manuscript before it can be featured?

Of course, you'd have to get members first, and openmindedness will be required. Simply because a couple members don't really care for the story--or writing--doesn't mean it's actually bad. Maybe have a majority voting, or something like that. Like if it's a fantasy story, have those who write and enjoy fantasy read it and vote.

Or not. Just rambling again.

Love this idea! LOVE IT! I'm getting all hyped up, and there's not even a guarantee this'll come to fruition!

GD, even though I can't call myself experienced in Craft as of yet, I'd love to be part of a site like you're describing. It could be a place where new authors can come together in camaraderie, market their book, and even have discussions on the process of publishing and their fears, etc., if you plan to add a feature like that, to help friendships form.

Oooh, even if this doesn't happen, I'll have had the experience of debating about it with you

Amber

@Amber Wolfe

You are exactly right! "It could be a place where new authors can come together in camaraderie, market their book, and even have discussions...." Maybe we could give the sight a theme, "Writers Co-op & Cafe." I'm thinking of Hemingway's A Moveable Feast here

OK, we now have two Charter Members of the Writers Co-op, you and me, Amber. See if you can get your contacts into this discussion?

We need more. I'm gonna go poke Carl E. Reed w/a stick. 

--edited by GD Deckard on 2/21/2015, 5:20 PM--

Will do, GD. I'll go--and try--to get them to join in here. We DO need more people in this discussion.

On my way to do it now.

I'd join. I'm fairly lame at the promotion game, but the one thing that seems clear is that the more venues — particularly small, friendly, targeted venues — you can get your work shown on, the better the chances of attracting readers. 

I'm a novice, but, more and more, I'm convinced that the most effective tool for attracting readers is exactly what it's always been: word of mouth. The main reason anybody plops down 6 bucks (or 26 bucks) for a book by an unknown author is because someone recommended it. Or because they met the author (online or otherwise) and were intrigued by his or her personality. Mass mailings and endless tweeting about how everybody ought to check out this awesome brand new book you've never heard of, does very little to generate interest. Likewise, people tend to be turned off by anyone who is obviously trying to sell something, so simply inserting yourself into an irrelevant conversation and saying, "Hey have you heard about my new book?"—that'll get you nowhere. 

So what d'ya do?  I dunno. I've been staying active on Facebook (and even Twitter), and of course I post about good reviews and let people know what's happening with me as an author, but I'm trying not to be a marketer. I'm just trying to be present. It's like being at a party. It's awkward sometimes, but if you be yourself, be responsive, have fun, you'll make friends, which is nice enough anyway, but, also, friends buy books. And sometimes recommend them to other friends. 

Of course, it could take years before that creates a noticeable bump in your sales. But word of mouth can spread to unexpected places. And, if it reaches a critical mass, it can begin to grow all on its own. 

That's the theory anyway.  So, yeah. A book marketing co-op is a good idea. I'd like to be a part of it. Are you thinking only of self-published books or do you want to open it up to traditionally published books as well?  By the end of the year, I'll have two books published by Lycaon (yes, they want Flight of the Wren as well), but I can tell you, a small publisher doesn't really have that much more marketing clout than an individual. 

Anyway, it's an interesting idea. I'd like to hear more.

Welcome, Atthys!

I want to hear more too. Maybe you can persuade some of your contacts here to weigh in?

 As a member of the RWA community, it’ been done. Any example is Savvey Authors http://ce.savvyauthors.com/  (The site is actually run by the Liz Peltzer who owns Entangled Publishing.)  Also, Book Country is kind of like this but it clearly has systems for making supporting its self with a  clear revenue flow. (Again, it is part of Penguin.)

As a marketing platform I would take the following into account:

1) What’s the quality of the books on it? One is the company they keep.  Most self-pub work out there is crap so is the small pub stuff.

2) Confession, I’m currently the web mistress of a DMS. So like picture me in a tight black leather push-up corset like Lucy Loo in Charlie’s Angels complete with three inch heels and a whip – but like I control web traffic and not horny business men… Any whoo… I’ve got million pages of content under my thumb, 2,200 active domains accounts, site traffic is running around 3 million hits annually. Nasty little midrange for a large platform. Vomiting up a website is easy. Keeping it up and relative is where the whip comes in. In the last three years I’ve had to move my platform from static to adaptive to responsive. Now, looking at “hubbing” it for social feeds. Gives a girl a headache for sure.

Here is the deal. To have a site that stays relative in the market, takes an investment. Where would this come from for even a Word Press site? Bitches like me are not cheap. It takes money to keep our leather so shinny!

Here is my tip: drop the special character in the domain. They suck SEO. If it’s available do: writerscoop.com

Now, I’ve got some red lipstick to re-apply

EB

@Lucy

Your post to gloria piper tells me that if I publish my book through Penquin I'll be working with alert, responsive and helpful professionals. Nice catch!

@EB

Help me out here : )  DMS stands for dimethyl sulfide, Digital Multiplex Switch, Drugs Money Sex, Data management system and -er, wait, that last one... that you EB?

Kidding aside, the Savvy Authors site looks interesting. But no one has suggested we create an investment opportunity. Just a simple site for co-operating authors to help one another market their book. The exact form of course, would be decided by the co-op members and your expertise and advice could really help us achieve that!

 Which brings me to point out -ack, sorry, can't help myself- but I like the hyphen in the domain name. We're a co-op of authors, not a coop of authors

--edited by GD Deckard on 2/23/2015, 4:22 PM--

Hi! 

I really like the idea of having a site for marketing - like a bookstore cafe where people can meet. I was thinking through this idea, and I think what's needed is a solid structure and plan for controlling content, monitoring the forums/review and a specific way to link viewers to where they can purchase the book they're interested in.

Bear with me as I talk this out and I hope I'm not stepping on any toes!

1. Purpose: to market new writers and get their books out to as large an audience as possible
2. Venue: Website/online 
3. Contributors: new writers & members of the co-op

1. Website/online content
   Make it interactive and fun; have a discussion page for each book; have links to social media on each book so people can share if they want; have a rating system in place so viewers and members can rate the books.
   Split the website into genres (the way Book Country does) so that all books can be filed on the correct "shelf"
   Link each book to the sites where they can be purchased (here on BC, Amazon, Chapters, iBooks, etc - accept all vender links
   Needed to do the above: monitors to ensure that the reviews are polite and honest without being mean or cruel (ie. to delete trolls)
   Also - have a "my book shelf options" so that viewers and members can create short lists of books they might want to purchase but don't have the funds or the time to purchase right now. If that makes sense.
2. Promotion plan
   I don't think it's enough to just have the books on the site and have members talk about it there. I think nowadays, people want continuous content with someone saying stuff like "Top 5 New Fantasy" and "Must Reads for the Summer" - so that would mean blogging, tweeting, Facebooking, Pinning, etc. If it's a co-op, we could have members participate in all of these things - get volunteers to take certain segments of time for each platform, have a blog schedule, etc. Be really active on the social media scene to get non-writers looking at the site.
   Needed to do the above: bloggers and blogging schedule, tweeters, facebookers, etc. 
3. Book reviews/screening
   I agree that there should be some screening system in place to ensure that the books (self-pubbed) are grammatically correct and etc. Perhaps establish a "board" of members for each genre who will vote on a book to see if it's accepted? 
   Needed to do the above: a group of people willing to dedicate their time to reading pitches/chapters of new submissions and discussing them before accepting/denying them. 
4. Mobile Site
   The website should, in theory, be mobile compatible. A lot people read on their tablets and phones, so they'll want to download the ebooks there... if that makes sense. 

Lisa, those are some great points and ideas! I'm certain GD will agree.

GD, is this 'might-be' site supposed to be for self-published authors only? If so, that sort of stinks for me, because I hope to be traditionally published. Could you clarify here?

Still a great idea, even if it is only for self-publishers. But I wouldn't be qualified to join then

@Amber

I agree with you, the co-op needs to be open to traditionally publish writers as well.

@Lisa Hoekstra

Thank you! Those are marvelously detailed and well thought out suggestions. Well organized and presented, too. Being a co-op, the writers who join will have to work out the details on everything. But if we were putting this together today, I'd want to use your post as a plan for beginning discussions.

We need more writers to join this discussion, but we are close to counting those who will join and setting up a way for the members to start the ball rolling.

Woot!

Hi,

I think you have a great idea.   Amazon Kindle is an ocean of authors and too many writers are left unknown.

Therefore, most authors are on their own, thus having a few writer working together to promote this website would multiple the traffic to read their work.

I agree with Lisa’s outline for a successful website.  Furthermore, being an independent website, the royalties can be as high as 80% - 90%, where 10% - 20% can be given to professional proof readers to help improve the writers’ work. 

Anyways let me know whether you plan to go ahead with this website.

Erik

GD, I am interested, if only as a learning experience. My novella is not ready to publish, though I hope to have it in shape (I know I keep saying this*) in a few more months.

.

* And I mean it every single time.

--edited by Mimi Speike on 2/26/2015, 8:38 PM--

@Erik-r

The Writers Co-op will not receive royalties.

I think you are exactly right: a few writer working together can stand out in an ocean of authors. You nailed it!

@ Mimi

YaY   : )  you make 5 definite founding members, along with Amber, Atthys, Lisa and I. Since the "founding" members will have to structure the co-op, I'd like to keep it at a maximum of 7. 7 is the ideal number in small group dynamics, meaning, we won't always agree but we'll always pull together once a decision is made.

Who else will to commit to the adventure?

I've not yet had much experience with Amazon myself, but just looking at it, you see how difficult it is for anything to stand out. So I find this a very interesting initiative. I think Lisa's point 3 is both crucial and delicate. Once it gets known a bit, the site is likely to be inundated with submissions, so that means (a) fixing criteria (just the grammar / puncuation bit or more?) and (b) a lot of reading! But I'd be happy to give it a go to the best of my ability.

I'm definitely committed, GD. Although I'm not yet published, to know there will--hopefully will--be a site out there that could help new authors promote their books is a blessing, and a comfort. Sometime in the future, once I've become good enough to be published, Writers Co-op will be the site I go to first for promotion, as well as camaraderie, purposes

I'd love to help set it up in anyway I can. So call on me anytime. I might not be published right now--or all that tech-savvy--but I want those new authors before me to have a site like this.

Amber

Summary & Final Call for Founding Members

We currently have six writers who have expressed interest in founding the Writers Co-op. They are Amber Wolfe, Atthys Gage, Lisa Hoekstra, Mimi Speike, curtis bausse and myself.

We could use more, so if you are interested, please post now.

Next week we can start organizing. 

@S. StClair

Yes! You make 7, the magic number. er, so I've been led to believe. We'll start organizing next week!

Hi All!

Sorry for the silence since my last post, which was admittedly just an off the cuff thought process! This is a very exciting new adventure.

Four thoughts I'd had:

1. I had based my original break down on self-pubbed work only, but it works for traditionally published books too, I think. Except, we won't need to apply the strict screening process. Though traditionally pubbed books have copyright protection that means they probably won't be allowed to be posted in full in e-format on this site (which we're doing? Or are we not doing that? Maybe just the first chapter of each book?) 
2. Maybe we could have it so that all books need to be "suggested" or "approved" by at least X members before appearing on the site. The members side of the website would have a section called "new books in (genre)" that members could read and then "approve". This would remove the onus from a small group of people and make the book selection more member-based (the members who approved it would have their name on that book's page, endorsing it...). If there's a way to keep track of how long a book has been sitting on that shelf, we could have the small group of people intervene after a certain amount of time... ?
3. I just started working (I'm a freelance writer who does web content and blogging) for a company that is trying to promote local businesses online; their system has some interesting functions and link-backs that we could apply to this platform. Ex. each business recommends 5 other businesses, which appear on their profile page, giving the viewer other great locations to visit while they're in the area. If that makes sense? 
4. If we end up needing funding (to cover the cost of the site maintenance and etc), we could potentially have an online ad spot, but we would need to keep that strictly book related (ie. see if book stores want to advertise or maybe coffee shops, boutique writing supply stores, etc) and not garish or annoying...  

Anyway! We can chat about this further when things are in gear. Just needed to get those thoughts out before I forgot them! 

Looking forward to brainstorming this further.

Lisa

Ps. Up until this past January, I worked in project management and program development for a Wine Club, so I have a lot of experience building on and developing ideas... Why am I telling you this? To explain why my posts on this subject are so ... like they are.  

@Lisa: The organization of your thoughts on this subject are very helpful. So I'm responding by #

1) I do think this could work for traditionally published authors as well. I don't think the site should publish full works; I'd recommend the first one - three chapters at most, as a hook. Although I wouldn't mind seeing short-stories on here, in full.

2) I was thinking along similar lines. Perhaps each co-founder can review submissions from specific genres and then sponsor a choice few to be voted on by the group?

3) I like the idea of one work promoting others. You mentioned in an earlier post allowing users to establish a "bookshelf" and this made me think of goodreads.com. There, the site will make recommendations of new authors/works based on what users already have on their bookshelf. 

4) 100% agreed that any advertising would need to be relevant to writing and not obnoxious (no pop-ups). 

Others in this discussion have already pointed out that this idea has been done and so I think we need to do our research into similar sites and use it to elaborate on the purpose of this one. Why this one over the others? We should all feel confident with that answer as we pull this one together. 

We have some very sharp thinkers here. I am trying to envision what would attract me to a site, when there are so many up and running, that I stick a nose into and pull out of just as quickly. And never visit again.

.

I think I would start with a name. And then I would consider the range of offerings. There has to be something beyond self-promotion. Concepts, beyond in-your-face flogs? Sing, you sinners!

.

I feel like Judy Garland. GD, you're Mickey Rooney. Hey, kids! Let's put on show! Playful, that's what I mean. That's what turns me on.

--edited by Mimi Speike on 3/7/2015, 9:23 PM--

Still here, GD! I'm currently being a night owl, so I didn't get your PM until now. My internet is dial-up--which means slow as moss growing on a rock. It takes--at best--thirty minutes for my email to load. I AM going to send the respond email you requested, and pray it actually gets to you

If you don't get an email from me by Monday, could you PM me? So I can try again?

Thanks

Amber

--edited by Amber Wolfe on 3/8/2015, 1:26 AM--