We started this board to make sure that our members have a place to ask anything and everything they might be thinking about as they start writing.

Beginning writers are very welcome on Book Country! Let's use this thread as a general introduction space for new writers to meet and start the conversation.

Lucy Silag

Book Country Community and Engagement Manager

I have only been seriously writing for about six years and haven't had much guidance except from what I've learned on my own through experience and techniques from favorite authors. Right now I'm studying "Conflict" and for some reason it just isn't sticking to my brain. My main problem is discerning the differences between "Motivation" and "Conflict." For example, in the book I'm studying, the author mentions goals (which I understand) and then internal/external motivation, prime motivating factor, prime motivating incident, and internal/external conflict. So...my question is what exactly is the difference between all of these?

Thanks!

Calico <3

well，so good 

Hi Twinkle! Welcome to Book Country! Just sent you a connection request. Let's be in touch so that I can help show you around the site and answer any questions that come up for you as you are looking around and getting involved in the community.

See you soon on BC!

Lucy

Book Country Community and Engagement Manager

And Calico . . . You and I are already in touch, but I wanted to say how much I admire your ambition here. Your questions are good ones, and deserving of lots of different viewpoints and thought.

What's the book you're studying?

I'd love to see some other BC writers jump in here and let us know how they define the terms you list in your post. I'd like to learn more about this as well.

Thanks for bringing this up!

Lucy

Calico:

Alright, so the things your studying are a little hard to understand at first, but let me try to explain using the story I'm currently writing. First of all, conflict versus motivation. Conflict is something that happens. It's a problem the character has to solve. Motivation is the influences behind the character breaking through the conflict. For instance, my character Epher has a conflict. His mother was kidnapped by bandits and is going to be executed, so he has to break into enemy territory and save her. His motivation for doing this? Well, it's his mother. He loves her and she's all he has. 

Now, internal motivation is something inside of you. Like for Epher, loving his mother. External motivation usually comes across as another person or force. In the book, Epher is encouraged by the rest of his villagers to go and save their people. It's external, rather than from inside him. Prime motivating factor: What is the MAIN reason your character is going to try and fight the conflict? 

Now, prime motivating incident is the main EVENT rather than feeling, that caused the character to challenge the conflict. Usually it's the start. Epher is motivated to break into enemy territory because his mother was kidnapped. His mother being kidnapped is a prime motivating factor. As for internal and external conflict... well basically external man v man, man v society, or man v nature. It's your main character fighting against another force. Internal conflict is one that happens inside of their head. In my book, Epher has to struggle with the idea that his enemy isn't actually all that horrible. It's a conflict within himself that he has to struggle with. 

Do those make any sense? If not I can explain more. 

~Linnea

--edited by Linnea Ren on 2/27/2014, 4:27 PM--

@Lucy,

The book is called "Writing with Emotion, Tension, and Conflict." So far it has explained things fairly well, just not for my brain. Understanding "Conflict" seems to be one of those "ah-ha!" moments of clarity. It seems easy to understand, but wedging the information through my head seems to pose quite a bit of conflict itself

My mother always talks about herself saying she has no drive or ambition. I believe that when you want something bad enough that's when the ambition is going to kick in, and for me and writing, it has plowed full force! Loving writing and all that comes with it makes it easier to drive after too!

@Linnea,

Thank you so much for the explanation. It has helped me along in the journey of processing "conflict" and all her friends. Please, if you feel that there is anything else to add, don't hold back.

You go, Calico!!

PS: I'll check out that book!

Hey guys!

I have another question about conflict. Internal/External goals? Sounds self-explanatory, but as I read further into my "conflict book" my understanding becomes nebulous concerning the examples that are given. What exactly would be considered external and internal goals? There seems to be an extremely fine line between the two. Forgive me if I had already asked this question :/

 What is Passive Voice?

I was given this as a review " You also rely heavily on passive voice. "It was cloudy." or "The woman was deep in thought." Sentences like this that rely on "was" are what we call "passive voice". They remove all action from a moment and create a dull story. "

After recovering from the entire review, I tried researching (passive voice). my conclusion so far is that nothing that happened in the past is any good, it seems like it is trying to eliminate the pas tense of anything happening ? did any one else come to this conclusion ? does anyone have a layman's explanation for why passive voice is bad? why things that previously happened dull? 

this is something that I found when researching it: 

Once y ou know what to look for, passiv e constructions are easy to spot. Look for a form of “to be” (is, are, am , was, were, has been, have been, had

been, will be, will have been, being) followed by a past participle. (The past participle is a form of the v erb that ty pically , but not alway s, ends in “-

ed.” Some ex ceptions to the “-ed” rule are words like “paid” (not “pay ed”) and “driv en.” (not “driv ed”). Here’s a sure-fire formula for identify ing the

passiv e v oice:

even in this detailed snippet on how to spot it , it does not say why? or who? 

I am a novice so please forgive my ignorance, but when it came to the craft of writing, I was always under the assumption that it was an art form, that the reason there is so many different stories and ways to tell stories, is because you were getting the unbridled imagination of the author.

I think that is why I am so thrown off by these rules.

Hi @Dbl_jay,

My understanding of what "passive voice" means is that the writer is saying "The trees were cut down by me" rather than "I cut down the trees." The passive voice can sometimes make your sentences too wordy. The first example has 7 words and the second has 5; also, it's awkward to describe what happened to the trees that way, so the reader stumbles over it.

However, I think you can give yourself a little artistic license when it comes to the passive voice in fiction. "I could see the trees from my porch" is a pretty mundane sentence, especially if the sentence right after also starts with "I." However, "the trees could be seen from my porch, but I'd never thought of them as foreboding before" changes things up a bit.

Did the reviewer point out any specific sentences as examples of the passive voice in your book?

Lucy

@Lucy First let me say Thank you for responding. 

     Thank you for giving me a new way to look at this issue, what I have taken from this is "that if I see any of the antagonist of passive voice, I should check to see if the sentence or statement is to wordy"

Although I am not sure when I can take artistic license with passive voice, that doesn't jump out at me and scream here is OK.

The reviewer did not point to specific passages in my writing. The only reason that I have not posted it here, is that I am unsure if it is appropriate, I am using this as an exercise to educate myself as a writers, but the work is Fan Fiction and it is here : http://fav.me/d7iqppy

I have another question if you don't mind? same subject as well 

from my research it says that passive voice  is not a grammar error , therefore will not always be caught by the grammar checker. 

So my question is the things that do show up in the grammar checker, why? why do they show up and others that are considered passive voice don't ? 

You're missing the point of what the reviewer told you. Every time you use "was" in the way noted, it can only come from the author. In other words, you, the author, are on stage alone, talking about things in the story. But you're not in the story. Nor are you on the scene. So every time you appear the scene-clock stops, realism and momentum vanish, and the reader is being informed, not entertained. It's not passive voice, which Lucy correctly identified as a sentence structural issue. Its the writing that's passive because it's informing when it should be entertaining.

That's a problem that the vast majority of new writers face because all our training, during our school years, was in the techniques used for writing reports, essays, and letters, all nonfiction applications that are fact, not entertainment based. So of course, when we turn to recording our stories we go with what we know. We use our existing writing skills to record stories in a way that would get us a good grade in English class but a failing mark from a publisher.

And our storytelling skills are no real help because they're part of a performance skill set, one that requires the audience to hear the emotion in our voice and see our gestures and facial expression—none of which transfers to the printed word.

It's not a matter of talent, potential, or even the story. It's that through no fault of our own, we don't have the necessary professional skill set that's required. And reading fiction no more corrects that then watching TV makes screenwriters of us, because we view the product not the process. And process is what we need, so we can make the necessary tradeoffs and decisions.

As a small example, our readers want three questions answered quickly, on entering any scene. Are you taking that into account when you write? Are you aware that a scene on the page is a very different thing from one on stage or on the screen? Do you know that point of view is something very different from which person the story is written in? It's not a matter of first, second, or third person, which are modes of displaying POV, not POV, itself.

Those are just three of the many things a writer should know, and take into account, when writing fiction for the printed word.

Sound daunting? It's not. It's just that every profession has lots of specialized knowledge, tricks-of-the-trade, and things that have to be mastered  before their necessity becomes apparent. And our profession is no different. We're not told that, of course. And because the general skill we're given is called writing, we assume that it's the only taught skill needed for the profession called Writing—and that if we have that. a good story idea, and a knack for an interesting turn of phrase, we're set.

But as Mark Twain so wisely observed, “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.” The problem is that we leave our schooling with a lot of "Just ain't so," that we're not aware of.

For a quick "leg up—an introduction to the language, plus the nuts-and-bolts issues of creating fiction that will captivate a reader—the best book I know of is Dwight Swain's, Techniques of the Selling Writer, available at all the online booksellers in digital and hard copy versions.

Another, almost as good, is Jack Bickham's, Scene and Structure. That one's often found in the local library system. And free is always nice. For a more gentle, but still excellent introduction, Deb Dixon's, "GMC: Goal Motivation & Conflict, is excellent, and a warm easy read.

Any of those three will give you the basics. And after a bit of practice, if you read them again you'll get as much the second time as you did the first. Just be sure to take your time, and both think about and practice the techniques as they're introduced. With any of the three you'll get far more than you would were you to take a local creative writing course. Dwight Swain and Jack Bickham both taught fiction writing at Oklahoma University, and Deb, aside from her own teaching, was one of Swain's Students.

Hope this helps.

Hello everyone,

                         OK so I'm going to start off with letting you know that I am completely aware of the fact that I am a newbie, having said that I did run into a new question.

How does one take care of an end of sentence preposition ? is there like a method or remedy, such as add a noun or verb? or remove something before that word ? I just don't know. 

but anything that is helpful will be much appreciated. Thanks for reading. Dbl_Jay

If you're Winston Spencer Churchill, you ignore the prohibition against ending sentences with prepositions and say "That it something up with which I will not put."

For the rest of us...it depends on the context.  In dialog, if a character says "That's something I won't put up with," it's ordinary, colloquial speech and there's not need to change it.   In narrative, you might write "Bill knew his boss wouldn't put up with that."  (or, "wouldn't put up with someone who came in late three times in one week.")  You could eliminate the preposition entirely in "Bob didn't know where he was going to" and have "Bob didn't know where he was going."  

In general, you can rearrange a sentence to have all the pieces in the right order, but it may sound stilted. 

Hello Elizabeth 

Thank you for responding to the discussion. Also leaving me with a new perspective on how to handle the issue when it pops up. 

Thanks for reading. Dbl_Jay

Hi @Fit--welcome to Book Country! Just sent you a connection request. Let me know if you need anything as you are looking around the site!

Excited to be a part of Book Country! 

Having never really submitted much for actual feedback before, I do find the process a little intimidating - yet I'm ready to jump in! 

I have a few stories currently in the works, will post soon. 

Look forward to getting to know people here

--edited by Nat R on 8/31/2014, 7:22 AM--

Hey Nat!

Great to meet you here on Book Country! I checked out your profile--it looks great. I love how on Book Country we can connect with writers all over the world. Sydney's also a place I have always wanted to go. Do you use it as a setting?

Just sent you a connection request. Please let me know if I can help show you around Book Country. Looking forward to reading your work!

Lucy

Thank you Lucy! I have accepted your request! 

And I know what you mean - it's great that with forums such as these, we can connect with people we likely wouldn't have met otherwise. 

I've used a Sydney setting for a couple of stories, yes. Lived here for a while now. Worth a visit! 

I'll definitely let you know when I need help figuring out all the features of the site

--edited by d'riter on 7/23/2015, 8:19 PM--

Hi, d'riter. Welcome to Book Country

Might I suggest you download LibreOffice? It's a free writing software that's a lot like Microsoft Office, only free . . . and legal

I use it, and it's pretty user-friendly, once you get the hang of it.

Hope that helps.

Amber

Hi @d'riter! Welcome to Book Country!

I noticed you haven't filled out your profile yet. It's a great way to introduce yourself to the other writers on Book Country. This post should help you get started.

Let me know if you need anything as you are looking around!

Hi Lucy

Thanks for this forum. I recently posted my first book for review. It is called "Alea Jacta Est: The Puppet and the Puppet master". It is a non-fiction ex-pose. Looking at all the manuscripts featured I am concerned that I may be in an endless queue of pot-luck. I have three questions: A) What is the best way to find a Beta reader for my work? B) Am I following the correct process by waiting for reviews before continuing the publishing process and C) is it possible to publish without having received an online review?

Visser

Welcome, Visser. Good questions. 

.

 I know that many will want to weigh in on this. On my part, I would say that you need reviews by serious writers. You do not get the same keen eye from a recreational reader. I put my book up here three years ago, thinking it was close to publishable, and my eyes were opened very quickly. I will quote someone, don't have a clue who. (Why don't I jot the attributions down? When will I learn?)

.

Someone (of stature) said (something like) don't take your reviews for received truth, but be sure that there is something in your writing that puts a reader off, and try to figure out what that is, using the comments as a guide. It is not necessarily the specific complaints that have been mentioned. But something needs addressing. Give serious thought to every critique.

.

You have a valuable resource here, I ask you to not proceed to publishing without taking advantage of it. This is a terrific forum. 

@Visser: Hello and welcome to Book Country!

To answer your q's:

1. Finding a beta-reader is best done by reading and reviewing someone else's work carefully and thoughtfully, and then asking them to do the same for you. You also can join the Buddy Program, or you can reach out to a writer whose book looks interesting to you.

2. I think it is a good idea to get reviews before you publish, because you can test how the book will be received ahead of time. Here's why we think that's a good idea.

3. You CAN publish without reviewing anyone else's work, but you can't post your own book without reviewing.

Check out this post for new members about how to get started on Book Country. And let me know if you have any more questions at all!

@SueHart: No, it's not a law. I've read many books that give fleshed descriptions of the main character/secondary characters. I don't particularly care for 'leaving the character's appearance to the imagination of the reader'. I'd like a fleshed description of characters, to have a better picture to follow in my head.

Others feel differently. But as with all 'laws of writing', they can be broken, so long as you know the reason you're breaking them

Hope that helps!

Amber

I tend to go lightly on describing characters in my books. My main character in most is the same person, Frank Cirilli. He's tall, husky and in his fifties. That's just about all I'll say. I think I mentioned in one that he had dark hair sprinkled with gray.

I don't go into personality or anything else, nor do I do character sketches of the main characters in any of my novels. With Cirilli and the other group of characters, I know them after five novels. 

The couple of books I've written involving other characters, I spend a paragraph or two doing a biography, then try to force them to stay with the description. If they insist on changing, I modify the bio rather than the person. Ultimately though, even these get, at best, a sentence of description in the book.

--edited by Peter Carlyle on 9/1/2015, 6:13 AM--

I think I already know the answer to this one, but will ask anyway.

In my epic, Danielsford, my character is trying to find the town's site. He visits the state archives and finds a couple of things related to Danielsford. One is a letter. I put the 'letter' in the script but wanted to keep it exactly as my character saw it, with original misspellings etc.

Is this okay, or is the thing below a little over the top?

In my defense I did a lot of reading original works from the time period. I kept the misspelled words and tried to mimic the writing style. 

Barelie will wee have sustnance for

our own selves during the coming frost.

Nythere shall I bee abel to selle mine

goodes. They bee needed for mie self and familie.

It does be a hardshippe. Theer be troubles agin

in Danielsforde which you knowe siteth near us.

They did hang younge Mary Bradeburie the day past

her being acusedd of sorcerie of a most horribel kind.

She did I am tolde lay on them an evill curse, it

afrightin the town ferefuly so angrily she

  spake and the spell did shee put on them. 

--edited by Charles J. Barone on 9/4/2015, 4:45 PM--

Hi, Charles

No, I don't think your letter is too over-the-top--If you're showing it as it was on the site, then leave it. I didn't have any trouble understanding what was written in the letter, despite all the misspellings. Others might feel differently than me, though.

Thank you Amber. You wouldn't believe how hard it was to write that paragraph. In those days spelling was fairly random and that paragraph is supposed to be representative. In original journals and other documents I scoured, I saw words spelled two or more different ways in as many sentences.

I was concerned that it would be difficult to interpret. In some of the writings I researched, though, I saw worse.

Hi Charles,

Not at all over the top in my view. It's excellent in fact - adds a great tough of authenticity to the whole. I even thought it would be cool to include one or two words which actually existed but are now too archaic so your narrator would have to found out what they meant.

I just wondered about 'abel' and the extra d in 'acusedd' - these, I think, would be due more slips of the pen than randomness of spelling at the time, or else because the writer had only a little education.

Best, Curtis

True, Daniel. I found various documents online. Trying to read the original penned documents was often an exercise in futility for me, My own writing, after 25 yrs of scribbling witness statements, interrogations etc, is worse than any doctors. I found typed transcriptions of many old documents that kept the spelling, odd grammar and word placement intact.