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Joined: 3/7/2011
Posts: 13
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I'm not standing up
and saying I am for or against the idea of a self-publisher. I'm just curious for opinions.
It seems to me that
even mentioning the word sets people on the defensive. With the success of some writers in the
self-pub areas I'm sure that a large number of writers are looking at
potentially taking their stories and trying their hands at going it alone.
I'm just curious what
everyone else’s thoughts are, on the subject.
I mean obviously agents bring a LOT to
the table, so do editors and the publishers.
But does that mean
you are forever scorned for trying to do things yourself?
If a writer heads out
onto the market with their little story, puts themselves out there to see what
will happen, are they branded with a Scarlet Letter for trying to
'buck the system'?
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Joined: 3/4/2011
Posts: 58
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Personally, I think there are two good reasons for going the self-publishing route.
1. You are really writing for the joy of it, to share with close friends and family only. You want to leave something behind for them to remember you by someday.
2. You write in such a tight niche that a traditional publisher wouldn't be able to sell it as well as you could. For example, you are a veterinarian specializing in horses who came up with a special diet for horses who race. Your contacts would likely be better than a traditional publisher's, and you would know exactly how and where to market your book.
There are probably other reasons/examples I'm not thinking of, but those are the two that come to my mind.
I would not go the self-publishing route for my work for many reasons. One, I don't write in a tight niche, so I feel a traditional publisher would be much better able to get my book into the major bookstores. I'm also not well enough off financially to pay for self-publishing, hoping to recoup my investment. And that would be a long, long shot, anyway. We hear the success stories, but in the grand scheme of things, those successes are tiny drops in the self-publishing bucket. Third, I highly value the input of those with more experience than I have. I believe my agent will make my book better through her revision suggestions, and therefore more marketable. And I expect my future editor will do the same. While they will make money from my work, I believe they will make more FOR me through their efforts on my behalf than I could ever have gotten for myself through self-publishing.
Is there a stigma against self-published books? Well, I don't buy them, and many agents say they won't represent them. Why don't I buy them? Well, I've put my faith in slush readers, agents, and editors to separate the really good writing from the pretty good writing, from the not bad writing, from the please-don't-make-me-read-another-page writing. Do great books sometimes end up being self-published? Of course they do. And maybe I'm missing out on some true gems. But from the few I've flipped through both in my hands and on Amazon, those appear to be the exceptions. And since self-published books also tend to carry higher price tags, I'm just not willing to take a chance on them, unless one comes to me, say, by word of mouth from someone whose judgment I trust.
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Joined: 3/11/2011
Posts: 156
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This is a tricky subject and a broad one. I do know people who've had success with self-publishing, so it is possible to do well. On the other hand. I know others who've sold 2 copies of their book.
But here's the overarching issue I've seen with self-published books--they can often be a sign that an author just isn't willing to push themselves that extra bit to compete outside the self-published market. I was a judge a couple or more times for a state-wide writing contest. Works were split into published and unpublished. Most of the published works were self-published. (The contest isn't big enough to attract major authors.) On a whole, the books were "medium."
They weren't terrible examples of people who shouldn't be writing. But on the other hand, they lacked that extra push or expert eye that an editor would have given them to make them seem more professional. The most common problem just seemed to be that they started too slow. I had only the first 50 pages and had to check sometimes to find out what genre the book I was reading was supposed to fit in. In one case, I was ready to rate the book for the inspirational romance category and it was actually an erotica book. The first fifty pages just gave no sign of that.
But these days Amazon and other sites make self-publishing just so easy that many writers feel they can't lose by giving it a try. I'm just not sure that it helps unless that self-published books is very well written and the writer can do enough marketing to make it sell.
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Joined: 3/4/2011
Posts: 58
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Hee, that's funny, Marie. I've won that very same statewide writing contest, twice. Once for first, once for third, in the unpublished science fiction category. I wonder if you judged mine at some point, though I was not in romance.
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Joined: 3/11/2011
Posts: 156
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Oh, half the reading they gave me didn't fit in the category I'd signed up for. But the interesting thing was -- the top unpublished entries often left the majority of the published (self-published) entries in the dust. The unpublished authors were working hard to make their stories as strong as possible.
Now once someone has experience in writing at the level that attracts the interest of agents and publishers, they don't forget that if they self-publish. But there is something to be said for working through a project or two with a good editor.
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Joined: 3/11/2011
Posts: 15
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Hello! Self-published author here!
Reason 3 to self-publish: you have what you're told by industry professionals is a great book, but no one will take it on.
My novel Knight Errant is the coming of age story of a gay character set in a not-hard sf universe. It's not a steamy romance, it's not about Being Gay, it's not about an Idea. It's not something you see every day, but is it a narrow niche? I wouldn't think so.
For three years I queried it off and on, revising between rounds and writing other books while I awaited responses. When my Last Best Hope decided (after wavering for a very long time!) she couldn't take it on, I self-published.
I put it out through Kindle and Nook for $2.99 (since dropped to 99 cents to get people to take a chance) and made available a print copy through CreateSpace which is, necessarily, more expensive. It cost nothing up-front to put it out there, and it's selling while receiving some awesome reviews.
Maybe I'm just abnormal. My stuff doesn't seem to fit anywhere. My epic fantasy has gay erotica seeping in, but not enough to SELL it as gay erotica. My sword-and-sorcery novel wanted to be a serial instead. My steampunk YA turned more paranormal (though if it doesn't get too weird on the next rewrite, I might still try it in traditional publishing.)
As for forever scorned--I wouldn't think so. Someone bought Eragon, didn't they? If you didn't have that kind of success behind you, I think you'd just need to come up with something else to sell--something I considered before taking this step with one of my five (and counting!) universes.
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 412
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I've been doing the self publish thing for a while as well, although in my case, instead of Ebooks, I'm serializing my story. Once its done, I'll package and ebook it. The instant feedback is awesome, the building of a support network, and knowing that people enjoy my writing really keeps me coming back to it. Even if you have a completed book that you are shopping for mainstream publication, I'd highly suggest doing an online serial novel, just for the high of it. (plus, start building a fan basefor when you DO get published. )
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Joined: 3/11/2011
Posts: 156
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KD - check out http://www.queeredfiction.com/ they are a small press for speculative LGBT fiction. (not specifically erotica) Even if you self publish some of your work, you might want to submit to some of their anthology calls.
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Joined: 3/14/2011
Posts: 49
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I think self-publishing is becoming a more valid option all the time. I'm self-publishing a steampunk novella series at the moment (about to release book 2), and it was a conscious decision on my part. There were a couple of reasons:
1. The novella market is tiny. There are hardly any print publishers who publish them (and almost all small presses), and only a slightly higher number of ebook publishers.
2. I don't see the point in publishing with an ebook publisher. I don't feel the need for that "stamp of approval" that comes from a "real" publisher. I know my work is good, the reviewers who have read it so far agree, as do the other people who have read it. An ebook publisher can do nothing for me that I can't do myself, other than take a chunk of my royalties. Of course, that's not the case for everyone, and if you're not capable of doing things like designing your own cover or editing your own work, than a publisher might be valuable to you.
3. I feel pretty much the same about small presses. I love the business side of publishing, so there's really not much a small press can do for me that I can't do for myself.
4. The big six publishers aren't doing much for most debut and midlist authors anymore. You're still responsible for the majority of your own marketing, advances are tiny for all but the tiniest number of authors, and quality in a lot of cases is going down. I read horror stories on a daily basis about people who have had a negative experience working with a big publisher, and I just have no interest in it.
I know that I'm capable of putting out books that rival the quality of anything coming out of the big publishers, and by doing it myself I retain complete control. I don't have to wait months and months for my books to come out, I can write what I want to write without concern for "marketability", and whatever money I earn is mine. I'm in this for the long haul, don't expect to get rich, but I hope that with enough of a back catalog and a quality product, then in a few years I'll be making a full-time income (luckily I live in an area where a "full-time" income is a lot less than it would be in other places).
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 214
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@cameronchapman
You make a lot of good points in favor of self-publishing! I have very mixed feelings about it. Obviously, I'd rather try the conventional route first -- secure an agent, publishing house, etc. That would be my first choice. However, given that self-publishing is really taking off, it has underscored some serious flaws in the publishing industry.
One is, obviously, how loooong it takes to get something from agent to market. "Twilight" was a big boom, and Amanda Hocking was all over that like white on rice. She wrote a saga that was just like "Twilight" (right down to plot arcs) and sold it less expensively, riding the cusp of the craze. It was, quite frankly, genius. Had the big publishing houses had another "Twilight" clone ready to go, they could have cornered that market nicely. Except they were looking for something "different," when what the tween market wants was MORE OF THE EXACT SAME THING.
I often believe that self-published writers have their fingers on the pulse point of the reading market, and that this is a rather intuitive talent -- largely because they *are* part of the market. They're writing, instinctively, what *most* people really want to read. It's an exciting time to self-publish.
To be sure, the overwhelming majority of self-published books that I've read are ... aaaaaaaah! Quite badly written. But then I'll stumble across a real gem. I downloaded a writer's eBook this weekend -- I found her through Book Country. Her writing is so much better than the published book I'm reading now, it's just insane. I question how on earth any agent could possibly let this writer slip through his or her fingers. So obviously, a lot of really Big Talent slips through the cracks. Who knows? Maybe the writers just didn't have a good query letter. Maybe the agents queried weren't in the mood to read manuscripts about (insert topic here) that particular month. You just cannot know.
If I don't get an agent, will I put my current m.s. in mothballs, write another and start soliciting the same agents again in hopes that "this time it'll be different?" Heck, no! I'll slap it up on Amazon using a nom de plume and see what happens. 
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 412
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Lisa marie, Hocking was writing her stories long before twilight boomed. She's been writing for about 5-6 years, and spends time every day in marketing her books, creating connections, getting an audience. She basically did the 1000 true fans bit, and the wave she rode was the kindle getting cheap and ebooks suddenly becoming popular. She got a bunch of her fans to all buy her newest book the same day, that got a high ranking on amazon, and it took off from there.
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 214
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@Alexander
The information that I got from all the Hocking stories is that she had a lot of books written before “Twilight” came out that she either hadn’t e-published or that were e-published and not doing so well (can’t remember) and then wrote her vampire series in 2009. I could be wrong about this, but her vampire series and Meyer’s are just too uncannily similar.
If we’ve learned anything from the Hocking story is that if you have something marketable and agents and publishing houses are telling you, “This won’t sell!” they could be wrong. Tweens (and adults) bought Hocking’s books for a reason – she’s giving them the storylines they want. Readers have traditionally looked to the Big Six to provide books that reflect their interests. But are they? If only very few books are selling really well, and if it’s true that only 1:10 books recoups its advance, what exactly is going on?
Seth Godin recently wrote a great blog about this:
http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2011/03/reject-the-tyranny-of-being-picked-pick-yourself.html
I can easily see a future in which publishing where agents and publishers start scouting successful indie publishers rather than relying on queries and recommendations.
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 412
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Well, lets be honest, the twilight series wasn't too original either. It started as buffy-anita blake fanfic.
I see the same future. (and I'm working on beating them to it!)
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 214
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Oh, "Twilight" was definitely thinly-veiled fanfic. Quintessential Mary Sue. I only read the saga because I wanted to see what sells. I always read best-selling novels, even if I hate them. It gives me an idea of the audience for whom I'm writing. I immediately saw why "Twilight" was salable.
What I find profoundly ironic about the whole Hocking hoopla is that no agent would touch her with a barge pole when she was trying to go the conventional route. Now that she's raking in millions, agents and publisher wanna BIG piece of *that* pie. A part of me want's to say, "Ah ... so gee, what changed your mind, folks?"
>
I hope you beat 'em to it, Alexander.
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Joined: 2/26/2011
Posts: 13
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Having read both Hocking and Meyer, I don't think either one are 'fanfic' of another vampire whatever, and I think it's unfair to both authors to say so. Just because it has vampire + romance does not automatically make it derivative or fanfic - there are a jillion romance novels out there that follow the same formula, and they're not all Buffy clones or LKH wannabees.
Hocking's work has a great, easy to read YA voice. She writes plotlines about strong female characters with love interests and paranormal happenings. She had a series up for cheap, and so people looking for more to read bought them and stayed for the rest. She snowballed. It's not because of Twilight, IMO, because it happened a few years later, when right now the hottest thing on the market is Hunger Games knockoffs, rather than the latest 'vampire' thing. Her biggest selling series has not a single vampire in it.
That being said, I'm not trying to defend her because I am in LOVE with her books. I just hate seeing everyone painted with the same brush.
As for self-publishing, I think it is an alternate path to publication - no more, no less. You can make it as successful as you can with the following amounts of things: Luck, luck, professionalism, a good book or three, luck, and professionalism. The audience looking for good cheap reads are still looking for well-formatted, decent books in their favorite genre. If it's full of typos and badly written, it's usually passed over. That being said, should everything be self published? No. Should you run straight to hit the 'publish' button rather than try for an agent? Depends on what you want.
I'm doing both - I have contracts with NY houses and I epublish stuff on the side that's the wrong length/genre for my NY stuff. It's a lot of fun, and some money on the side, and it builds my audience. But I also waited until I had a bit of an established audience first.
Jill
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 412
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Jill, Meyers was part of a local critters group I ran locally and online in the mid 90's. I've read the first drafts of it. Bella started off as a Jack Daniels swilling, vampire and werewolf banging, paid supernatural assassin. It was anita blake buffy fanfic, with herself as the main character. She sliced down the sex and booze after her mom got a hold of her manuscript and read her the riot act over what a proper lady would write about.
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 214
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@Alexander:
Whoa-ho-ho!
Seriously?
SERIOUSLY---??!!
You would not, mayhaps, be yanking our chains? 
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Joined: 2/26/2011
Posts: 13
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Her last name is spelled 'Meyer' and according to her bio, she wrote the first draft of her very first book (Forks) in 2003. I am thinking you possibly have her confused with someone else. Even if she sliced out the sex and booze, that still leaves a vampire assassin in what you are describing, and the actual books are nothing remotely close to that.
And this is all probably way off topic, unless she decides to self-publish Midnight Sun.
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 412
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Well, her email was smeyers@, the main character was Bella Swanson, the main vampire was Edward, the main werewolf was jacob, and a werewolf vampire war while the two fought over her was the main plot, and the person was living in Mesa, and a Mormon. If it WASN'T her, its a wicked coincidence.
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Joined: 3/11/2011
Posts: 15
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I'd argue, since it came up, that "fanfic" is not necessarily bad any more than a self-published novel is. A lot of great stories start as fanfic then get changed into something else. That doesn't make them derivative--everything is inspired by something.
One of the best stories I've ever read was fanfic. It took everything about the tv show's canon and twisted it in incredible ways, making the badly-constructed backstory make sense, deepening and broadening the characters, and just in general blowing me away.
"Fanfic" should not be seen as an insult.
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Joined: 3/14/2011
Posts: 3
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Great points on here.
I think in this day and age self publishing is a viable option. I refuse to believe that the larger publishers and agents are always right when the reject a manuscript (Hocking). So why not try it in the market?
I had my first romance novel published with a small independent publishers in January. I still have to do 80% of my own marketing and promotions, and it does make me wonder if I could do the same but self publish.
I think there is still a huge stigma, but there really shouldn't be. More and more authors that are with, or have been with a large publishers are self pubbing certain books. I know Larissa Ione uses Smashwords for her smaller stories, and only this week I've heard of an author that will now be solely self pubbing.
It takes guts to put your work out there no matter how you do it.
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 412
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The generous Colleen who is running this place made a good point on twitter. She wouldn't feel comfortable paying, say, 12.99 for a self pub ebook, because with a major publishing House, you expect editing and quality control, and you can't expect that from a self pubbed author.
Now, I would argue that you CAN get that from an self pub author. I'm working as the editor for several authors who intend to self pub, and there is significant quality control involved down the line. But... how do people KNOW? In my case, my brand is going to be on the authors I edit for, but its still going to be seen as a self pub, much like a vanity press is, whether or not editing and quality control happen. I wonder if there would be interest in a ... i dunno, a quality control board for self pubbed books, a logo people could put on their books? And, more importantly, would the purchasing audience even CARE?
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@Alexander, I think in the current Wild West of self-pubbing, a QC board probably wouldn't matter to readers. If enough polished authors find an audience and build a career, then I think it will matter, since an author's success wouldn't be in "outlier" territory, you know what I mean?
Anyway, I'm a traditionalist; I like the idea of being published by big house, but I've worked with folks in the self-publishing field, and I wouldn't rule it out. Who knows what the industry will look like in 5 years?
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 214
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@Alexander and Mahesh:
I don’t think that a quality board would affect readers one way or another. A lot of correlations can be made between people who self-publish and those who monetize their own websites. I know a lot of folks who have 20+ websites, and they make a good chunk of change. But could they have done that with just one or two? Probably not. Also, you have to hit on the right topic at the right time, and this takes marketing savvy. When affiliate marketers choose their campaigns, this generally indicates that they’ve done their research and know what sells.
I think it’s going to be the same for eBooks. Writers will have to put up a large quantity of them, perhaps 20+ Out of that number, a few are going to rake in some serious cash. The others might draw a few dollars. One gal I know wrote an eBook on SEO writing, and for a while there, she was making a good $2K a month. This was for a document the length of a novella. She sold it for $7 or so at the time. She also turned it into an affiliate product as well -- SMART. Doing so contributed to her sales.
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@LisaMarie, I think you're right that ebook self-publishers who put out lots of books and see what the market is buying will enjoy success. I also think that if enough of those folks were successful, some readers (like me) would be interested in referring to a group that vetted books for quality and ensured they were typo and error-free. But that's a lot of ifs. In the mean-time, I think folks like your friend will do really well.
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 214
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@Mahesh
I still even more “on-the-fence” feelings about self-publishing. If you’re a freelancer writer, your world overlaps with that of site builders, SEO writers, affiliate marketers, MLMs and similar. After the last big Google slap, Internet marketers got stung quite badly. There’s a huge push for white and black hats alike to fire up Dragon Naturally Speaking, “write” a novel in a couple of days, stick a slick cover on it and pop it up on Amazon. This could conceivably lead to a seething cesspool of subpar sh*te, and the spammy and/or dodgy techniques used to promote these products infinite.
I mean, the worst of the lot already employ “work at homers” to spam the Internet with fake, glowing reviews of their eBooks. Or worse, paying people to buy product to create the illusion of high sales. I only wish I were kidding. Not sure if you’ve ever seen a black hat forum, but the marketing “techniques” used are pretty scurrilous. Amazon, Smashwords, etc. are sitting ducks because they’re so centralized and because they are not picky about what they accept. As seen on one of these forums: “Amazon doesn’t care – they’ll let you upload anything.”
That's the reason I don't want to be a part of the "e-Pub revolution" just yet.
Ah. Good times ...
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@LisaMarie ... I haven't been to a black hat forum, but I've seen the end results, and agree that Amazon, Smashwords, etc. are sitting ducks for that type of behavior. You make a lot of good points!
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 214
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@Mahesh
Just so you know ... I am not into the whole black hat thing. I am definitely *not* scum.
But I do like to know how things work. And I also like to know what type of content to disregard. In the future, it might be Amazon reviews ...
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@LisaMarie
Oh yeah, I didn't think you were! Yeah, educating yourself on what's out there is a good policy, especially in the Wild West of self-publishing.
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Joined: 2/27/2011
Posts: 353
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Okay, I'll bite: What is a black hat forum???
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 412
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Colleen, you are familiar with black hats vs white hats as a film and literary device, yes? in a western, the good guy has a white hat on, the bad guy has a black hat.
A black hat forum is for people that are the "bad guys" in this case, spammers and marketers that use evil techniques. the spam comments that you get on your blog, with links on it, driving their links up in google search results so that searching for golf gives you a website selling viagra? Black hatters came up with it. Registering websites that are close but just a letter or two off of real popular websites, and making a long chain of links that go nowhere, generating page and advertisement views while the user trys to get back to the page they wanted? Black hatters. Hiring overseas people to post reviews on itunes, or "job" advertisements on craigslist that are actually fake get rich quick scam links, or any one of a hundred things evil people do online that is basically cheating to get attention? Black hatters.
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Joined: 4/2/2011
Posts: 6
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I'm coming into this discussion a little late and I admit I stopped reading comments somewhere in the middle. Responses riddled with "obviously"s and "of course"s are... - I won't say "not relevant anymore" but I will say they're limited in scope.
Paraphrasing here -
"Obviously an author would prefer to be published by an NY print publisher" - false.
Several very valid reasons exist for having no desire to pursue NY. I realize this discussion is about self-publishing, but using e-publishing as an example to illustrate my cry-false:
I have a friend whose e-books earned her $60k last year. She didn't have to share with an agent, she didn't have a publisher tell her "you can't finish your series because of the first three books' sales" (something that happened to a different good friend who has more than 10 books with big NY publishers). Nobody told her "Yeah, we're not going to publish this idea you just proposed, come up with a new idea". She is not remotely interested in pursuing NY. E-publishing suits her just fine.
(My self-published book made its way to self-publishing because my editor said, "Your heroine's name is too common, change it" and "edit out this Very Important Element because a book with a similar element did very poorly five years ago". Not for any reason related to the quality of the writing or entertainment value of the story.)
"Of course a book edited by a named publisher will be the cream of the crop" - false.
Have you READ print published titles lately? A wide variety of them? I'm somebody who will not keep reading once I've decided the book is dreadful and my DNF print book pile is huge. I stopped buying paperbacks by people I didn't know because finding a good book is an expensive risk. On the flip side of that, I regularly recommend "zOMG this story was awesome" e-books and self-published books to people.
Self-publishing draws authors who:
-have great success with publishers who have actual editors
-have NY print contracts
-have agents shopping full-length manuscripts, but who won't touch their short stories or novellas
-have won award after award but always get passed up for something that's trending
-want to earn 70% cover price per title instead of 35% (or 6%!)
-figure a $200 investment (what I paid for professional cover art, formatting and editing - it helps to Know People) is a fair amount to gamble on an experiment
-are tired of writing what their agents and editors tell them to write, and want to write the stories they love writing
After 5 years of working with e-publishers, watching the changes in the Big NY world and reader/author/publisher struggle with the market popularity of digital editions, and a tiptoe into the self-publishing pool, I really believe the willful exclusion of any publishing path is short-sighted.
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 214
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Alexander sort of summed it up. Any of us here could have a best-selling eBook, provided that we used black hat tactics AND chose something with the potential to trend. Obviously, you wouldn’t want to push your own memoir or genre fiction about something arcane -- or literary fiction. The way black hatters get eBooks to go viral is more subtle than the more obvious techniques used to push fake diet pills and herbal Viagra, but it still involves working the system.
Then there are white hat techniques, which focus more on the (somewhat) more ethical philosophy of “build it (well) and they will buy.” The lines between white and black hat can get really blurry. For example, there are going to be writers who crank out subpar “penny dreadfuls” themselves en masse who stick them up on Amazon.com with passable covers. This isn’t black hat, but neither is it particularly ethical, to my mind.
A more disturbing trend among the under-30 set is to purchase the "content" of others and pass it off as one’s own (this happens a lot in journalism). They see absolutely nothing wrong with this. One of these days – and I promise you, it will happen – an agent is going to tag a best-selling e-published author only to find out that the work he or she is representing isn’t even the author’s own.
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Joined: 2/27/2011
Posts: 4
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I recently self-published a short story... It was too long to submit for a typical anthologly, and too short to be a novella.
I decided to release it as a .99 eBook single to help get my name out there before my novel is released in August.
So far the experiment seems to be working. I've gotten some great reviews and the reviewers have all asked if they can review my novel when it's released. I've also gained some new readers as well, and they're very anxious to hear about the book...
Only time will tell, but I see self-publishing as another avenue in your publishing arsenal. I don't think it's a replacement for a publisher, but a viable opporunity to build your readership with work that might not be saleable due to length or niche.
Great topic!
Lisa
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 222
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I'm jumping late into this discussion, and there are so many great responses that I can't respond to all of them by any stretch of the imagination.
So, I'll just put my opinion here:
I think that it doesn't matter if a writer self-publishes OR traditional publishes *IF* and *ONLY* if the writer uses the same standard for professional publication in either venue they take. If they write like a professional, the professional houses will come -- as will the readers.
Excluding those who are very talented and just do not fit a niche, many self-published writers are those who weren't good enough for the major house and gave up improving. This number seems to outweigh those who are truly talented and just made the decision to try the self-publishing route to see how it went for them.
Self-publishing is a lot more work. Traditional publishers have the experience needed to ensure your book has the best chance possible. You may be able to become an Amanda Hocking with self-publication... but let me note one thing about Ms. Hocking.
She. Is. A. Professional. She carries herself and her words with professional pride and quality. She worked very, very hard to get where she is at. She spent more time working on background stuff than writing. She went professional traditional to get back her time so she could write more. (Or so the long post on her decision -- read it if you haven't -- stated if I recall correctly)
Both are viable options. The question is: Are you a professional?
Just my two-cents.
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Joined: 3/14/2011
Posts: 49
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My own personal reasons for self-publishing (I have two ebook novellas out, as part of a series) had more to do with wanting to experiment with indie publishing fiction. So far, I'm happy with my results. I've been on and off the top 100 chart for historical fantasy on Kindle (both in the UK and the US), and my sales this month are about double what they were last month. I'm hoping I can maintain that kind of momentum as I bring out more books in the series.
The reason I will continue to self-publish has to do with my experiences working with a (very large) mainstream publisher (for a non-fiction book). My editors and the team I'm directly working with are fantastic, and this is a book that I could not have self-published (it's part of an established series), so I don't regret signing my contract. But I can see so many inefficiencies in the way things are happening that I just can't see myself ever wanting to work with a mainstream publisher again. The money would have to be very, very good to make up for the frustrations. The trade-offs just aren't worth it to me.
Either path requires a lot of hard work, a lot of dedication, and a very thick skin. I think it comes down to where you want to put your efforts. If you enjoy the business aspects of publishing, and can either do much of the work yourself or act as a project manager, then you can be successful. If you'd rather focus more on writing (with some promotion thrown in for good measure), then you might be better off pursuing a traditional publishing contract.
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 412
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RJ, I argue that. Lots of professionals end up on the slush pile and never published not because they aren't good enough, but because there aren't enough slots at that House this year. Its why I chose self publishing, to stand and fall on my own merits, the judgment of the masses over an individual.
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 214
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I’ve noticed a lot of really good writers are self-publishing more and more these days. My Kindle app is filled with eBooks my self-pubbed writers. When reading their work, some I can see why they’re too “niche” for the market. Others, I am seriously clueless, because they’re GOOD. Like Lisa (above), for example. She’s a flawless writer. If there’s something in her style that publishers don’t “get,” I can’t see it.
I haven’t made up my mind yet. I’ve somewhat obligated myself now that I have partials out. And this process is taking forever + day + day.
Has anyone tried the digital imprints, like Carina Press or Avon Flame, Flare, whassit called?
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Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 412
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On the same token as the digital imprints, who here would be willing to take a novel they have completed (or are working on) and slice it into pieces, publish it serially? Serial novels in magazines used to be a HUGE market, and its becoming that way again online, separate of the Ebooks.
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Joined: 3/14/2011
Posts: 49
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I have a novel I'm just finishing up (only have one last round of edits to do to make the ending work) that I plan on doing that for. It's women's fiction, and I may actually publish it under a pen name, since I'm focusing more on sci-fi and fantasy at this point. I have four women's fiction stories, so I feel like doing that under a pen name (though not a secret pen name) might be a smart move. I'll be linking to them from my existing blog and Twitter account, though I'll probably set up fan pages for the pen name on Facebook, and maybe a separate Twitter account, too.
The plan at this point is to serialize it for free on a blog, but release the ebook (for $2.99 or more) at the same time for people who don't want to wait.
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Joined: 4/27/2011
Posts: 1
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Self-published author here with a success story. I self-published in the Fall of 2010. I had a full-time teaching position at the time and wrote more as a hobby than a vocation. On a dare, I stuck 4 novels on Amazon.com. Within 2 months I was the #1 Best Seller in my genre. All 4 books hit the top 25 and remain there. (and I did not sell it at .99 or $2.99, so it wasn't the cheap factor that sold the books.)
I made mistakes. I put up un-professionally edited manuscripts and was truly clueless about publication. Since that time, I have hired an editor and other professionals, joined many writers and readers groups, and read everything I can get my hands on about publishing and the craft of writing.
I released a 5th book, edited and polished, and it hit #1 within 3 hours of going on sale. I am still learning and always will be, but the point I wanted to make is that sometimes just getting that first one up and read can change your life. I quit my teaching job and now write for a living and am doing quite well. (Says something about teacher salaries too, doesn't it?)
In my small genre, self-publishing got me in the door. Now, I have to decided if I want to sign that publishing contract or not. It gave me options I would not have if I had been turned by a publisher and gone back to writing as a hobby.
True, a lot of self-published stuff is junk, but there are jewels among those books...don't pass it up just because it's self-published. You may be missing out on the next great author's first work.
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Joined: 4/29/2011
Posts: 17
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There is a lot of good information out there on self-publication. I am following several groups on LinkedIn who do not want to be at the mercy of an agent. It is definitely gaining momentum. Imprint publication is a one step above self-publication which offers the author their own brand. Sef-publishing firms like Wyatt-MacKenzie offer imprint publication options, for a not so steep price. I am expolring my possibilities with them.
The biggest hurdle, I have noticed so far, with self-publication, is promotion. How does one come up with a marketing plan, which does not cost an arm and a leg, and gets your book noticed by the readers?
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Joined: 3/16/2011
Posts: 214
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@R E Bradshaw
Girl, you rock! I don't blame you for quitting your teaching job and writing full time, if that's what you can do. Yup, I know what teachers make, too.
I think that I could do very well self-publishing, if I could find a way to market to my niche. I write romance that features characters who are nonparents by choice. I don't make a huge issue of it, I mean, my books are for everyone, they're about love. I noticed in my group of nonparent friends that a lot of women want to read romance ... but they were put off by the conventional HEAs in so many of these stories.
I've already gone over some of the possibilities and contacted a few sources to see about doing some guest blogging to promote SSR. Sadly, there is no subgenre for me, so this would be a lot of work.
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Joined: 5/2/2011
Posts: 14
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I self-published my poetry because, well, because I could. Also, there's no money to be made in publishing poetry.
While I also self-published my first novel, I'm leery of recommending this option to others. I think you either need some name recognition (J A Konrath, etc) to kickstart your self-pub sales; or you need a stellar, kick ass series of books (because series seem to be selling better than standalone novels) alongside brilliant networking/selling skills. If you haven't already got a platform, or you're not a stellar self-publicist, then maybe signing with an established publisher (big6 or indie) is the better game plan.
---
spam: If people fancy a bit of free poetry, my website is at http://www.rikweb.co.uk/poems/index.php
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Joined: 4/29/2011
Posts: 17
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Here is another success story of a self-publisher, making it big time.
http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/
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Joined: 4/27/2011
Posts: 6
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I think things are changing. I've heard that agents and publishers are trawling Kindle and other sites looking for what is doing well. The best known example is Amanda Hocking who has now secured a $1 million publishing deal.
From an agent's and publisher's angle it reduces the risk. If something is doing well it is being judged by the readers not just by one person who reads the slush pile.
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Joined: 7/8/2011
Posts: 2
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I have never understood why a film maker who self-finances/produces/directs/creates a movie is considered an independent artist, but a writer who self-publishes is looked down upon.
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Joined: 7/10/2011
Posts: 7
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I"m reading "Writers Gone Wild" by Peschel, and not only is it apparent that writers in the past self published, but they also wrote their own reviews, secretly profited as their own publisher, and created scandalous news to get the buzz out. Take Upton Sinclair who printed a fake obituary, then published a fake biography later. He was then approached by a wealthy business man, who helped him get out his famous book, "The Jungle."
Last note: the writer wants readers. Isn't that part of why we're here at Book Country, the camaraderie of readers and writers? If self-publishing allows you to succeed at this goal then do it. Be your own thinker.
Hunter Liguore
http://skytalewriter.com/index.php
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Joined: 7/8/2011
Posts: 2
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I have learned from managing my investments that when you read about an opportunity in the newspaper it is to late to profit on said opportunity. For example, a few years ago the newspapers started running articles on flipping condos and how everybody and his brother was making a fortune at it. You know how that turned out.
The Sunday NY Times Magazine recently ran an article about a woman from Austin, MN making a lot of money e-publishing and eventually getting a lucrative book contract. I wondered if the same principle applies: is the bloom off the rose of e-publishing? Will Kindle self-publishing be swamped with eBooks? Will the scammers, con-men and crooks follow the "gold-rush"? Is it better to forget about e-publishing and go back to sending out endless query letters to indifferent literary agents?
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Joined: 4/26/2011
Posts: 8
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You can query til the cows come home, but if you don't have a product that is a guaranteed money-maker, there's little chance of being signed up these days. Publishing is a business. For those of us with niche products, who are never going to make a fortune for anybody, it's self-publish or nothing.
I may never be famous or rich. But I have readers who I've never met or spoken to, who have paid money for my book and liked it enough to write a review. That's good enough for me.
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